Talk:Hail Mary pass

Untitled

This page is very confusing for those unfamiliar with American football - I've never seen a game, and was very confused by the "The Play" section especially - eg, "took the snap, pump-faked left". I can't improve the article because I don't understand it! Someone who does, please help. 81.110.25.151 00:40, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Please read wiki article on American football for clarification on these terms. The terms are widely used in football writing and discussion, and are therefore "common" to football. Describing these terms in an article as specific as this one is not necessary. This article is about a specific catch, not football plays, descriptions thereof, methods, etc.209.115.232.65 22:37, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

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I made some pov changes to the "aftermath" section, and removed the uncited confession by Drew Pearson. Pearson in a recent interview denied this claim and said he never pushed illegally. The top section needs some minor editing as well, not just a Vikings pov.A.d.diamond 00:04, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Reason

It doesn't say why the pass is called a Hail Mary... ~ R.T.G 17:02, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

American football

I attended this game in 1975 when I was 18 years old and the catch made by Drew Pearson happened almost directly in front of me. I was maybe 40 or 50 rows up in the stands. I remember Pearson catching the ball and Nate Wright falling down, but the play hapened so fast( as all plays do) that I couldn't tell if there was offensive pass interference. And I say this as a former diehard Viking fan. I also remember seeing an orange object flying by in front of the play, and I thought it might be a penalty flag. Years later watching an NFL film on the game I saw the play from a different angle and it seemed that Pearson may have pushed off Wright's hip with one of his hands, and based on that film I think maybe the ref blew the call. Of course that doesn't excuse the behavior of the fans afterwards. I saw the referee get hit by the whiskey bottle in his face and it made me sick to my stomach. Johnhenney (talk) 23:00, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

History

I thought that the Hail Mary was invented at the University of Notre Dame? GregaR89 05:57, 5 November 2007 (UTC) The Hail Mary Play may trace it's origins back to 1922 when Notre Dame played Georgia Tech. Notre Dame players prayed a Hail Mary before each of 2 4th down plays which resulted in Touchdowns. Afterwards it was remarked that the Hail Mary Play was their best offensive play by some of the Notre Dame players. Hail Mary[1] —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tex23bm (talk • contribs) 18:24, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

• Not to be a whiner or anything, but can we find a reliable source or two (possibly the full text of the articles mentioned in the blog themselves) that can be better trusted than a blog, no matter how decorated the blogger? 71.252.253.19 (talk) 22:04, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Other Links

How exactly is a lateral pass similar to a Hail Mary pass? Shouldn't that be removed?

Quite right. It's been removed. RADICALBENDER★ 20:46, August 31, 2005 (UTC)

List of Hail Marys in American football

I just added this new page and moved all of the historical examples from this article to that one, except for Stabauch (coined term) and Flutie (most famous). If the list grows large, I suggest reintroducing some of the more famous examples of the play back into this article, but under a new section. Joeljunk 18:41, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

Removed "5" from "with 4 or wide receivers in the singleback formation" as that would result in an intelligible receiver. 5+1+1 leaves only 4 linemen.

This list should be updated to feature the "Minnesota Miracle" hail mary that took place last NFL's seasons playoffs between the Saints and Vikings, where Vikings receiver caught a "prayer" (hail mary) past Saints corner back in order to win them the game with zero seconds left on the game clock. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jmais1 (talk • contribs) 03:53, 14 November 2018 (UTC)

Origins

I'm not picking one side or the other, but I do want to call into question the "Origins" section, specifically talking about the receiver being guilty of a "push" that would constitute pass interference. The wikipedia article on that particular catch talks about a "trip" but never mentions a "push". The language in the section on this page seems iffy to me. Anyone have any non-biased sources that can clear that up (specific rulings, player admissions [even well after the fact], anything like that)? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Whiteguy (talk • contribs) 05:39, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

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The Offical ruling took place 30+ years ago! Offically what took place, the refs ruled pass was completed and no interference on the play, otherwise it would not have been a touchdown and a famous play!

Accounts (and one can watch the game films avail on video) is that Wright FELL there was no push. In any case the play stood and there was no penaly called on that play. It was a completed pass for a tochdown. Whoever added the push statment (which ahs since been reomved) was clearly a biased Vikings fan and a very sore loser to carry a 30 yuear grudge. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.74.155.50 (talk) 17:49, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

1972

The OED lists the Sporting News, January 15, 1972, page 8 column 2 as the first recorded print usage of the term "Hail Mary play". It's still Staubach, but it's not to Pearson in 1975. The text, as found on some listserv [2]:

His former Navy coach, Wayne Hardin, recalled recently: "I remember a game at Michigan. We were on the 20 and Roger rolled right and got hammered in. He was bobbing and weaving and kept retreating, back to the 30. He was surrounded and upended.

"He was parallel to the ground, his feet in mid-air and he threw a pass to Pat Donnelly, who made a one-yard gain. Afterward, I asked if he really saw Pat or if he was throwing it away.

"He said, 'Let's just call it my Hail Mary Play.'"

I'm too lazy to fix the article with refs and all, but someone should do it. Certainly it appears the most famous Hail Mary play was Staubach's 1975 throw, but he had apparently used the term years before that. --76.28.238.29 (talk) 23:57, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

All well and good but the term far precedes the laughably and arrogantly assertive 1972 date above. The problem with any artifact that emerges from folkways is that it is not likely to have academically traceable roots. American Negro spirituals, for example, may or may not have "coded" messages in the lyrics texts, but the argument that they do not because there are no contemporaneous supporting published sources that indicates that there are is specious, blithely ignoring that the slaves who would have used and understood such "codes" were virtually all illiterate - that's why there were codes.

The term "Hail Mary" for a last minute desperation pass was in common use at the University of Notre Dame when I was there in the mid-1960s, and it was a term broadly understood in my father's time in college in the 1930s. Roger Staubach, a good Catholic boy who wanted to go to ND originally, may well have been the first person to use the term in a televised interview, but he no more invented it that Doubleday invented baseball. Both the term and the sport had been around for a long while before their supposed and claimed "origins."

I can't yet amend the article because my personal experience of it - absolute and irrefutable - constitutes WP:OR and isn't (and shouldn't be) acceptable sourcing. The "folkway" aspect of the term's origins make finding a WP:RS difficult - but not, I think, impossible. I'll bet that there is archival published material supporting the use at Notre Dame in the 20s - and I'm fairly sure much more broadly. More to come. Meanwhile, I will enjoy a good laugh at the expense of whoever thought that this traditional term was invented in 1972. Sensei48 (talk) 06:02, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

OK. There are references in print (Catholic Digest, 1931 and 1948; two histories of Notre Dame football published prior to 1966, and more) that include direct references to a last minute desperation pass play as a "Hail Mary," one by a priest writing in 1948 describing a play that he had seen one of Rockne's teams execute - Rockne died in 1931. The texts of these are not currently available online but should still be accessible in print in some libraries close by. When I find hard copies of these with full publishing info, I will revert with sourcing the error in the origins section.Sensei48 (talk) 07:24, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

I feel the same way. I KNOW that I heard this term often as a child - in the 1960's - and I do not believe the term was anything new then. My mother even used the term - and she wasn't even a football fan, she just thought it was clever. My wife remembers hearing it when she was young, also in the 1960's. It was a very common term! —Preceding unsigned comment added by InsultComicDog (talk • contribs) 17:54, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

Padding

Is it just me, or does there seem to be an excess of irrelevant information on this subject - considering it's around 1 specific play? You know, too many cooks and all that? —Preceding unsigned comment added by CaptainScaulding (talk • contribs) 9:30 am, 30 April 2015

Section Staubach to Pearson, 1975

Why is this section here? It's excessively detailed for an article on the Hail Mary pass. I'm inclined to remove it entirely, seeing that there is no background on it, and the next section says that "Arguably the most memorable and replayed Hail Mary pass came on November 23, 1984 ..." in another game. Banedon (talk) 02:17, 1 August 2016 (UTC)

Deleting section since it's been a week with no response. Banedon (talk) 01:14, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

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