Talk:Hajo Meyer

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Hajo Meyer meeting in UK Parliament, 2010

Hi, I have repeatedly tried to include the following important facts about an important event both in Hajo Meyer's life and in UK politics. All the sources are reliable. Labour Briefing, for example, has been around for decades. Those involved regularly with Labour Briefing have included the present leader of the Labour Party, Jeremy Corbyn, and the shadow Chancellor, John McDonnell. The quotes referenced by Briefing can all be viewed via their website and seen to be accurate. Please consider restoring this text:

At one talk, on Holocaust Memorial Day, 27 January 2010, co-hosted by future leader of the UK's Labour Party, Jeremy Corbyn, Meyer was reported to have repeatedly likened Israel's actions against the people of the Gaza Strip to the policies of the Nazis and likened the government of Israel to that of Nazi Germany. During the talk, Meyer said that "Judaism in Israel has been substituted by the Holocaust religion, whose high priest is Elie Wiesel." One audience member at this meeting, held at the Houses of Parliament, the Holocaust survivor Rubin Katz, said that “the room was brimming with raging hatred, directed at Israel and Jews.” Other commentators saw things differently. One complained, in the Jewish Chronicle, about the presence of “Zionist hecklers who shamed Holocaust Memorial events”. An eye-witness at the meeting complained about “the hounding of 85-year old Dr. Meyer, and the bellows of ‘boring!’ every time any survivor of a different genocide tried to tell about their experience.” Another eye-witness, Yael Kahn, wrote that it was Jonathan Hoffman,a vice-chair of the Zionist Federation, who engaged in “repeated shouting at the 85 year old Holocaust survivor, preventing Meyer from giving his talk”.

Hoffman has since confirmed his involvement in this protest, writing that “the meeting descended into chaos no fewer than nine times, as we protested.” Eye-witnesses claim that another pro-Israel protester shouted “Sieg Heil” and gave a Nazi salute. Hoffman later justified the protests at Hajo Meyer’s talk, claiming that Dr. Meyer was “a raging anti-Semite. The fact that he was in Auschwitz for ten months is entirely irrelevant.” Amid public outcry over an ongoing Labour Party antisemitism scandal, Corbyn apologized for being present and sharing a platform with Meyer, as well as for having organizing the event to coincide with Holocaust Memorial Day.150

References

On Corbyn

@Huldra:: I don't get how you missed this clear text: "The main talk at the event, called Never Again for Anyone – Auschwitz to Gaza, was given by Hajo Meyer, a Jewish survivor of the Auschwitz concentration camp. He repeatedly compared Israeli action in Gaza to the mass killing of Jewish people in the Holocaust... Corbyn said: “The main speaker at this Holocaust Memorial Day meeting was a Jewish Auschwitz survivor. Views were expressed at the meeting which I do not accept or condone."--Aroma Stylish (talk) 23:57, 27 July 2020 (UTC)

User:Aroma Stylish: Yes, I have read the source. They say A, then B, then imply a causality between A and B ("A caused B"), where no such causality was given. Corbyn did not name Hajo Meyer, AFAIK, so this doesn't belong here. Huldra (talk) 23:59, 27 July 2020 (UTC)

::Corbyn said: "The main speaker at this Holocaust Memorial Day meeting was a Jewish Auschwitz survivor [Hajo Meir]. Views were expressed at the meeting which I do not accept or condone." Of course mentioning Corbyn's rejection of the event and/or Meir is relevant since the paragraph in article is talking about Corbyn's participation in the event. Corbyn didn't reject the event itself, but the disgusting comparison of Israel with the Nazis.--Aroma Stylish (talk) 00:59, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

Major rewrite needed

To start with the conclusions, I suggest that the section "Later career" be majorly rewritten. In addition, the sections "Theory of 'sequential traumatizing' of "Jews and Accusation of antisemitism" should to be removed.

It is clear from the following synopsis of The End of Judaism that Hajo Meyers views were and still are a source of controversy.

In The End of Judaism, Auschwitz survivor Hajo G. Meyer, a Dutch national of German-Jewish origin, expresses in impassioned terms his dismay at what he sees as the moral collapse of contemporary Israeli society and the worldwide Jewish community as a whole. Meyer is a member of “A Different Jewish Voice,” a Dutch-based, secular Jewish movement that dares to openly criticize Israel’s policies toward the Palestinians. In his observations, deeply colored by his personal experiences during the Holocaust, Meyer compares Israel’s current policies with the early stages of the Nazis’ persecution of the German Jews. He clearly explains that he is in no way seeking to draw a parallel between the current policies of Israel and the Nazis’ endgame, which resulted in the mass murder of six million innocent people. What he is trying to do is simply point out the slippery slope that eventually led to this catastrophe, and the necessity of foreseeing the possible consequences of a policy that oppresses and marginalizes the Palestinians in their own homeland. As a result of his experiences in Auschwitz, Hajo Meyer claims to have learned one fundamental lesson: that his moral duty as a human being was to never become like his oppressors. The End of Judaism is the outcry of a dissident Jew who is not afraid of standing up to entrenched ways of thinking about history, and particularly about the Palestinian conflict which is one of the most intractable social and political problems in the world today.

Wikepedia is not the place to rehash this controversy and certainly not with poorly sourced statements such as

In the book he is reported to have used phrases such as the "Israeli Wehrmacht," and the "Jewish SS."

The reference is to reference 11 (Yves Pallade ' "New" Anti-Semitism in contemporary German academic,' p.45.) Probably all three of the references 10, 11, and 12 cite the same article published by the Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs. That is hardly an unbiased source for a book that criticizes Israel's policies. Ref. 11 specifically points to a page in Pallade's work that mentions Chomsky, Finkelstein and Meyer. The text, by clear implication, accuses all three of antisemitism. The terms Meyer "is reported to have used" do not occur in the English translation of the The End of Judaism. The Palade's reference (his number 60) is to a German version of the book. Palade includes no page number. The combination makes it virtually impossible to check for any but the desperate investigator.

In "Theory of 'sequential traumatizing' of Jews" I read

Meyer developed a theory based on the work of Hans Keilson regarding "sequential traumatizing," according to which Jewish collective remembering in a ritual setting of numerous past traumatic events befalling the community.

Meyer's book The End of Judaism states something quite different

It is plausible to imagine, however, that the recent collective suffering, added to the tradition of ritual remembrance of old wounds, and including the mourning of new losses, could strongly amplify the traumatic effect.[104] This concurs with a theory based on clinical experience with Jewish Holocaust survivors after the Second World War conducted by a Dutch psychiatrist of German-Jewish origin, Dr. Hans Keilson. He called his idea the theory of “sequential traumatization.” In brief, it states that the traumatizing effect of a threatening experience on an individual is greater in proportion to the number of traumatizing experiences that have preceded it. (Meyer, Hajo G.. The End of Judaism (p. 116). Kindle Edition.)

The connection with quote in that section comes out of nowhere.

There is no doubt that Meyer was accused of anti-Semitism more than once. The information in the section "Accusation of antisemitism" is not particularly informative in this respect. Once again, rehashing this discussion is not suitable for Wikipedia. If anything, it would be more informative to mention that anyone who critiques Israel policy is likely be accused of being an anti-Semite, or as Meyer formulated it

An anti-Semite used to be a person who disliked Jews. Now it is a person whom Jews dislike. Meyer, Hajo G.. The End of Judaism (p. 172). Unknown. Kindle Edition.

Nighster (talk) 22:49, 14 December 2023 (UTC)

• • That last “formulation”, that antisemitism is no longer “real” but a false accusation used by powerful, dastardly Jews to silence their righteous enemies, is the single strongest piece of evidence that Meyer was indeed an antisemite. Imagine pulling that specific quote of all things to try and accuse this mildly positive article of being unfair to him? LOL. 100.15.199.13 (talk) 07:13, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

Content sourced from depreciated source, does someone have a better source.

RFC: Electronic Intifada lead to a depreciation. Therefore, particularly as the subject area was a significant factor in the depreciation, a bette source for Footnote 19 is required. Does someone have one, or should we just remove the source and the content? FortunateSons (talk) 15:30, 23 January 2024 (UTC)

I cited NOS that reports his death on 23 August 2014 in his sleep. It seems to be the least controversial of the sources that reported his death. Fuchsia the Sun (talk) 17:33, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

Thank you! FortunateSons (talk) 17:22, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

I give up

It's clear that the sections "Later career," "Theory of 'Sequential traumatizing' of Jews," and "Accusation of antisemitism" have been heavily influenced by those who equate criticism of Israel with antisemitism. I have made several attempt to undo this, but all such attempts have been reverted. Unfortunately, the article as it stands reflects poorly on Wikipedia. Among the most deplorable references are those to the work of Yves Pallades who in "NEW" ANTI-SEMITISM IN CONTEMPORARY GERMAN ACADEMIA (references 10, 11, and 12 in the current version) paints Chomsky, Finkelstein, and Meyer with this brush. In my "Major rewrite needed" [22:49, 14 December 2023 (UTC)] talk section I've discussed this matter in greater detail Nighster (talk) 20:12, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

Cleanup of Book section

At the moment I am in the process of improving the section about Meyers book, using the book itself as a source. Please bear with me. Judithcomm (talk) 11:30, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

The Book section is now based solely on the 2007 book. Some more work needs to be done, like adding references. The most important thing still missing is how the book got its title, so more to come...--Judithcomm (talk) 13:14, 18 June 2024 (UTC)

I'm done for now, hope this section does justice to the book.--Judithcomm (talk) 07:30, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

I'm still working on this. Little steps for little feet. I just added a brief comment + reference to Meyer's participation in the production of the wafer stepper, Chapter 5, The Violin Maker in ASML’s Architects by René Raaijmakers. More to follow. Nighster (talk) 15:51, 15 July 2024 (UTC)