Talk:Halemaʻumaʻu

Rename Halemaumau crater

Does anyone object to renaming the article "Halemaumau crater"? Please see WP:HIMOS and its talk page for the justification. Walter Siegmund (talk) 11:39, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Yes. The okina represents a consonant (present in Hawaiian but not in English), so that omitting it means there's no way of knowing how to pronounce the name. Just redirect from Halemaumau. Awien (talk) 17:14, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Thank you. Please be kind enough to share your thoughts on this matter on the WP:HIMOS talk page, if you have an opportunity to do so. Walter Siegmund (talk) 01:33, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

FYI the proper name is includes the fact of including Crater -- whereby it is upper case -- rather than in the lower case form. When referred to it is referred to in whole content Halema'uma'u Crater. Crater defines the fact that it is a puka (hole) in the ground as opposed to a Pu'u is to a cinder cone. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Paradiver (talk • contribs) 00:51, 25 April 2008 (UTC)[1]

GNIS supports capitalizing Crater.[2][3] Walter Siegmund (talk) 01:42, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

GNIS als uses the correct Unicode encoding for the ʻOkina, which is U+02BB MODIFIER LETTER GLOTTAL STOP (ʻ). WP:HIMOS also uses U+02BB. Would it be appropriate to rename the article Halemaʻumaʻu Crater? --ThT (talk) 19:42, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

I think that would be better than Halema`uma`u crater. However, I rewrote the guidance of WP:HIMOS to be consistent with my reading of WP:NAME, to wit, "The names of Wikipedia articles should be optimized for readers over editors, and for a general audience over specialists." Please comment at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Hawaii/Manual_of_Style. Is there an ambiguity with Halemaumau Crater or another justification to make an exception for this article title? Walter Siegmund (talk) 05:13, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

"English usage is often best determined by consulting works of general reference which deal with the subject and seeing what they use", (WP:UE).[4][5][6] Walter Siegmund (talk) 17:38, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

The USGS, the real authority, uses Halemaʻumaʻu throughout, and we should too. This is in line with a shift in usage in Hawaiʻi in general to restore the diacritics in documents, signage, etc. Cheers, Awien (talk) 14:40, 25 July 2018 (UTC)

pronunciation of the name

Could someone who knows please provide pronunciation guides for the name in both English (Halemaumau, the page title) and Hawaiian (Halemaʻumaʻu, the name in the first sentence)? As an English-only speaker who knows people from Tonga and New Zealand, I would attempt to pronounce the Hawai'ian version with some kind of Polynesian structure different than how I would pronounce the English form. The page title to me is "Hale-mow-mow" (rhymes with cow and how). I would attempt to say the Hawaiian version more like "Halemma-ooma-oo". Thank you. --Scott Davis ^Talk 10:33, 5 May 2018 (UTC)

 ScottDavis: Done. You're basically right, it's just that "halemma" would tend to yield the wrong stress. Cheers, Awien (talk) 14:55, 25 July 2018 (UTC)

Thank you. --Scott Davis ^Talk 22:35, 25 July 2018 (UTC)

Requested move 5 August 2018

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: move the page to the proposed title at this time, per the discussion below. Dekimasuよ! 19:15, 19 August 2018 (UTC)

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Halemaumau Crater → Halemaʻumaʻu Crater – There is a ten-year-old discussion above that resulted in this article being moved from Halema`uma`u crater to the current name at Halemaumau Crater. User:Awien has much more recently suggested moving it to Halemaʻumaʻu Crater (using the okinas in the first word, and a capital C for Crater) and refers to this being the spelling used by USGS. MOS:HAWAII appears to now support that spelling also. Since the current article title is the result of a previous discussion, I am following WP:RM to confirm that current consensus supports this proposed page move to Halemaʻumaʻu Crater. Scott Davis ^Talk 14:09, 5 August 2018 (UTC) --Relisting. Dreamy Jazz ^{talk | contribs} 18:25, 12 August 2018 (UTC)

• Support In Hawaiʻi the trend for at least a couple of decades has been to use the diacritics (ʻokina and macron) in signage etc. As for Halemaʻumaʻu Crater itself, both USGS [7] and Hawaiʻi Volcanoes National Park [8] also use the diacritics. Awien (talk) 15:02, 5 August 2018 (UTC)
• Support per Scott Davis and Awien. 青い(Aoi) (talk) 03:26, 6 August 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME. Book sources almost all omit the diacritics, other than a few guide books as do most web sources.  — Amakuru (talk) 16:31, 12 August 2018 (UTC)

WP:COMMONNAME says Sometimes the most appropriate title contains diacritics (accent marks), dashes, or other letters and characters not found on most English-language keyboards. This can make it difficult to navigate to the article directly. In such cases, provide redirects from versions of the title that use only standard keyboard characters. Most recent sources seem to use the diacritics. --Scott Davis ^Talk 04:40, 15 August 2018 (UTC)

• Support nothing to fear from okina In ictu oculi (talk) 07:37, 13 August 2018 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

An error identifying a photograph

In the photo gallery the photo entitled "lava lake 1930" has an erroneous date. The photograph is signed by Brother G Bertram. He was a Catholic priest and amateur photographer who took wonderful photographs of Hawaii scenes before the end of the 19th century. The date on the photo actually reads: "LAKE OF FIRE KILAUEA NOVEMBER '93' The feature shown is a perched lava pond within Halemaʻumaʻu Crater which developed between 1892 and 1894. This was a popular tourist attraction and for that reason there are many photos as well as art works that depict this geologic feature.

For paintings of this feature as well as a discussion of its significance see: Volcano Art at Hawai`i Volcanoes National Park A Science Perspective, USGS Open-File Report 2018-1027 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ben Gaddis (talk • contribs) 16:34, 12 June 2019 (UTC)

Article title

According to the U.S. Board on Geographic Names, the name of this crater changed from Halemaʻumaʻu Crater to Halemaʻumaʻu in 2017. Google results also give 11,500 hits for Halemaʻumaʻu Crater and 25,200 hits for Halemaʻumaʻu. The article title should probably be changed to reflect this. Volcanoguy 13:19, 24 July 2019 (UTC)

I agree -- seeing as no one has opposed this proposal, I've requested the move at WP:RM. Aoi (青い) (talk) 00:28, 14 September 2019 (UTC)