Talk:Halsten Stenkilsson

Made-up name

The article had been moved here [Alstan of Sweden] from Halsten Stenkilsson by SergeWoodzing. He had made up this name, it is not attested anywhere. I will move it back. /Pieter Kuiper (talk) 20:45, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

Woodzing had even changed the names in the quotes from Kershaw, see this edit. This is really beyond the pale. /Pieter Kuiper (talk) 09:44, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

• And then: 2010-12-27 09:46:06‎ Pieter Kuiper (talk · contribs) moved Alstan of Sweden to Halsten Stenkilsson over redirect: WP:MADEUP name. — RHaworth (talk · contribs) 14:11, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

Sources for name Alstan

The recent move was done by an editor with limited knowledge of English and little or no knowledge of older English historical writing (as shown by a number of edits lately which I see as destructive). There are reliable sources in English literature which refer to this man as Alstan. Alstan is also a well known English exonym for Swedish Halsten or Hallsten. The Swedish patronymic Stenkilsson does not conform to the way other Swedish kings are listed. I will request a move back to the English version of his name as soon as I have time to research and find those reliable sources. SergeWoodzing (talk) 09:04, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

Requested move 2011

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page not moved.  Ronhjones  ^(Talk) 22:05, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

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Halsten Stenkilsson → Alstan of Sweden — Move back to established English version of name (see previous talk section). Halsten exists in English only in English or Swenglish text by Scandinavians written or influenced by Scandinavians. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 01:40, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

• Support, per nominator. GoodDay (talk) 03:05, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

• Oppose It is hard to use Google books here, since it finds also other persons named "Halsten", but the hits for "Halsten" seem overall to be more recent and more relevant than those for "Alstan". If we restrict ourselves to the last sixty years, there is exactly one relevant hit for "Alstan" [1], but several for "Halsten", [2], including The Cambridge History of Scandinavia and a book by Peter Hayes Sawyer. The claim that it is used "only by Scandinavians" is simply incorrect. Andejons (talk) 07:27, 6 February 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose per the reasons provided by Andejons above. Cavila (talk) 16:40, 6 February 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose per Andejons. /Pieter Kuiper (talk) 00:55, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose, nominator seems mistaken over this ("Alstan of Sweden" returns me no hits on either Google Scholar or Books, while "Halsten Stenkilsson" is sometimes used, as noted above). --Kotniski (talk) 08:32, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

No more "mistaken" than the two good references given in the article after the name Alstan. SergeWoodzing (talk) 18:37, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

One of those books was published in 1763. That is not a good reference for current usage. /Pieter Kuiper (talk) 00:17, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

• Oppose per Andejons. Finn Rindahl (talk) 13:58, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 2014

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: no consensus. Jenks24 (talk) 14:50, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

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Halsten Stenkilsson → Halsten of Sweden – To conform with son Philip of Sweden and other similar bio names, and to avoid phonetically very cumbersome patronymic in Swedish. SergeWoodzing (talk) 12:41, 28 August 2014 (UTC) — --SergeWoodzing (talk) 12:41, 28 August 2014 (UTC)--SergeWoodzing (talk) 12:36, 28 August 2014 (UTC)}}

• Support, "Halsten of Sweden" gets similar results as "Halsten Stenkilsson" and the proposal makes good sense. Gregkaye (talk) 06:23, 29 August 2014 (UTC)
• Oppose any move until the proposer has presented a comprehensive overview of what Halsten is called in academic publications by professional historians. (As for Gregkay's comment, I'd argue that in cases such as this Google Search is absolutely useless, regardless of results, as it will just give you thousands of hits from low-quality amateur genealogy websites plagiarizing each other.) --Hegvald (talk) 08:37, 29 August 2014 (UTC)

To do that is no more the responsibilty of the presenter than it is yours. Varsågod! --SergeWoodzing (talk) 13:38, 29 August 2014 (UTC)

• Oppose Google books yields one hit for "Halsten of Sweden" [3] (and a genealogy text at that), while there are several books using "Halsten Stenkilsson" [4]. Andejons (talk) 18:39, 29 August 2014 (UTC)

Used your second link. Got nothing. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 19:28, 29 August 2014 (UTC)

Don't know why that is. I get several hits, among them "The Cambridge History of Scandinavia" and "Sweden, the Nation's History". It's not an overwhelming amount, but the name is used in serious literature.

Andejons (talk) 19:44, 1 September 2014 (UTC)

Tried it again: "Your search - "Halsten Stenkilsson" - did not match any book results." That's all there. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 06:29, 2 September 2014 (UTC)

PS The man is virtually unknown to English (origin) literature. Wouldn't it be a good idea to match his son and avoid the obvious phonetic problem (for English readers, especially oral) in this case? --SergeWoodzing (talk) 06:32, 2 September 2014 (UTC)

It's not that difficult to search Google books if you doubt me. And your concern for phonetics has absolutely no basis in Wikipedia policies or guidelines. There are articles with names in (transcribed) Chinese, Klingon and Inupiaq, and Swedish should not be treated any different.

Andejons (talk) 18:07, 2 September 2014 (UTC)

It would be interesting to let a non-Swede opine on that also. WP:MOS does not look like it supports your view re: what I'm trying to say here. Of course it is not my intention that we discriminate, but where phonetic impediments can be avoided (as in this case) I think they should be avoided. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 06:15, 3 September 2014 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

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