Talk:Hamadan province

Dates and numbers in this article

Wikipedia policy is clear on the use of Eras in articles:

Both the BCE/CE era names and the BC/AD era names are acceptable, but be consistent within an article. Normally you should use plain numbers for years in the Common Era, but when events span the start of the Common Era, use AD or CE for the date at the end of the range (note that AD precedes the date and CE follows it). For example, 1 BC–AD 1 or 1 BCE–1 CE.

It is up to the author(s) of an article to determine the dating system to be used and there must be consistency with each article. In this case, for a non-Christian topic in a non-Christian region of the world, BCE/CE appears to make the most sense. Sunray 18:04, 2005 May 22 (UTC)

The authors of the article appear quite happy with BC/AD. Why are you encouraging division and choosing to deliberately cause offence with all these changes? jguk 18:08, 22 May 2005 (UTC)

Which authors were your refering to? Have you spoken to them? Sunray 18:11, 2005 May 22 (UTC)

Hamedan not Hamadan

I will move this page --Kash 04:03, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved per request. - GTBacchus^(talk) 17:30, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

---

Hamadān Province → Hamadan Province – per WP:COMMONNAME and Wikipedia:USEENGLISH Takabeg (talk) 12:11, 3 August 2011 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Ancient Hamadan known as Hegmataneh or Ecbatana

"According to local Jewish traditions, the City of Hamedan is mentioned in the Bible, as the capital of Ancient Persia in the days of King Ahasuerus in the Book of Esther. It was then known as Shushan."

The last sentence appears to have confused Shushan, the ancient city where the biblical story of Esther takes place, with Hegmataneh (or Ecbatana), the ancient name of modern Hamadan. However, Hamadan is mentioned in the book of Ezra (chapter 6), when Darius I issues a decree to search the imperial archives in order to confirm the decree issued by Cyrus I to rebuild the Jewish temple in Jerusalem. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.168.104.55 (talk) 09:31, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

Demographics and languages

Kurdo777 added inexistent information in article. They are not "official" statistics and "non-existent" in sourses. He said that "get a WP:CON. You'r removing official numbers."

There are no official statistics or census figures on the ethnic makeup of Iran. The sources information are:

"1.نژاد مردم اين استان آميخته ترين سكنه اي هستند كه در ايران وجود دارد ،زيرا در سطح استان همدان اقوام مختلفي با فرهنگها وآداب وسنن خاص سكونت دارند .كه عبارتند از:

تركها:در شمال وغرب استان ،به ويژه درشمال وغرب شهرستان همدان ساكن مي باشند .تركها در 562روستاي استان سكونت دارند.

لرولك :اين اقوام در شهرستانهاي ملاير ،نهاوند وبخش سامن در 255 روستا ساكن مي باشند .

كردها:اين قوم در 159روستا درغرب وشمال غربي ودر مجاورت استانهاي كردستان وكرمانشاه سكونت دارند .

فارسها:بيشتر ساكنان مركز استان را تشكيل مي دهند واز قديمي ترين مردم اين منطقه محسوب مي شوند كه از دوران مادها در اين سرزمين اسكان يافته اند .

علاوه بر اقوام مذكور ، مسيحي ويهودي نيز در اين استان سكونت دارند .

2.زبان

چنان كه در پيش گفتيم در اين استان اقوام مختلف با فرهنگها وآداب وسنن خاص خود زندگي مي كنند . از اين رو پراكندگي زبان ولهجه در سطح استان به خوبي مشاهده مي شود كه عبارتند از :

زبان فارسي:اغلب ساكنان مركز استان به زبان فارسي تكلم مي كنند.

زبان تركي:اغلب ساكنان شمال غرب استان ،به ويژه در شمال وغرب شهر همدان به زبان تركي سخن مي گويند .

زبان لري ولك :ساكنان ملاير ،نهاوند وسامن به اين گويشها تكلم مي كنند.

زبان كردي :اغلب ساكنان شمال غرب وغرب استان در مجاورت استانهاي باختران وكردستان به زبان كردي صحبت مي كنند ."[1]

"فارسها در مركز و مراكز شهرستانهاي استان تركها ( آذريها ) در شمال غرب و شرق همدان در مجاورت استانهاي مركزي و زنجان , كردها در غرب و شمال غرب همدان در مجاورت استانهاي كردستان و كرمانشاه و لرها و لكها نيز در جنوب استان همدان، در مجاورت استان لرستان سكونت دارند . " [2].

There are not any information about percent of ethnics in province. --Ebrahimi-amir (talk) 05:28, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

And they're from official governmental sources from the provincial goverment of Hamedan, and you're removing them, and replacing them with cherry-picked random sources you Googled. This is unacceptable conduct. If you want to make such controversial changes on any article, you need to get a WP:CON first. That's how Wikipedia works. Kurdo777 (talk) 22:14, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

The text of sources be shown in above. The deleted information inexistent in sources. If you want add information in article, they should have source WP:PRIMARY. All of the information that exist in sources exist in article. --Ebrahimi-amir (talk) 19:17, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Here is the official census results. [3] It clearly says that the numbers are based upon the census of 1375. (1996) Also, Mohammad Jalal Abbasi-Shavazi, Peter McDonald, Meimanat Hosseini-Chavoshi, "The Fertility Transition in Iran: Revolution and Reproduction", Springer, 2009. pp 100-101, say that "The first category is'Central' where the majority of people are Persian speaking ethnic Fars (provinces of Fars, Hamedan, Isfahan, Markazi, Qazvin, Qom, Semnan, Yazd and Tehran..." This is a 2009 academic sources clearly saying that Hamadan is Majority Persian speaking. Now in regards to your so called sources, Kasravi's old article from 1922 is considered an outdated source, and cannot be used in WIkipedia on anything except on topics about Kasravi himself. See the discussion here [4] Also, Kasravi never mentions "Azeris are majority in Hamadan"..just mentions there are Azeri villages in Hamedan.Regardless, we don't use 1922 sources.. and Kasravi is simply having an opinion on the issue. If you want to talk about Iran's population make up at that time, according to Ervand Abrahamian who is modern scholar and renowned historian (Ervand Abrahimian, "A History of Modern Iran", Cambridge University Press, 2008.Page 18) , the population of Iran in the 1930s was Persian 6 million 50%, Azeris 2.5 million, Mazandaranis 200,000 Gilakis 200,000, and Taleshis 20,000. Kurdo777 (talk) 08:22, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

1-There are no official statistics or census figures on the ethnic makeup of Iran. Alone first two row include the "official census results".

2- The information that you added in article "nonexistent" in the source.

It's the text of source:

“ جمعيت استان 1677957 نفر بر اساس آمارگيري سال 75 ثبت شده كه 42 درصد در نقاط شهري و 9/56 درصد در نقاط روستايي و 1/1 درصد بصورت عشايري زندگي مي كنند .

اين استان داراي 8 شهرستان – همدان , ملاير , نهاوند , تويسركان , كبودراهنگ ,اسد آباد, رزن و بهار مي باشد .

پيش بيني هاي انجام شده سال 1379 نشان مي دهد استان داراي 1763664 نفر جمعيت مي باشد كه از جمعيت مذكور 4/51 درصد آن در نقاط شهري و 4/48 درصد در نقاط روستايي ساكن هستند .

اين استان با توجه به موقعيت خاص جغرافيايي و محل تلاقي با استانهاي همجوار گويشها و قوميتهاي مختلفي را در خود جاي داده است از جمله آنها آذري ها , كردها , لرها و لكها مي باشند . اين مساله همچنین باعث شده يكي از استانهايي باشد كه مركز تعامل قوميتهاي مختلف قلمداد شود . هرچند اين اختلافات زباني و يا قومي مي توانست مركز تنشها و تعارضات قومي نيز باشد كه تاكنون چنين امري حادث نشده است .

فارسها در مركز و مراكز شهرستانهاي استان تركها ( آذريها ) در شمال غرب و شرق همدان در مجاورت استانهاي مركزي و زنجان , كردها در غرب و شمال غرب همدان در مجاورت استانهاي كردستان و كرمانشاه و لرها و لكها نيز در جنوب استان همدان، در مجاورت استان لرستان سكونت دارند .

”

--Ebrahimi-amir (talk) 09:49, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

Nonexistent? What are you talking about? Hamedanpolitic.ir is the official website of the goverment of Hamedan, and they have the ethnic breakdown of every single city in Hamedan listed by percentage. (see the lower sections here: [5])

همدان

شهرستان همدان با قدمت تاريخي كهن مركز استان مي باشد و بر اساس آمارگيري سال 75 داراي 563466 نفر جمعيت است . اكثريت فارسي زبانان در اين شهرستان سكونت دارند بطوري كه حدود 80 درصد فارس, 12 درصد ترك , 5 درصد لر و لك و 3 درصد كرد ساكن اين شهرستان مي باشند .

نهاوند

شهرستان نهاوند با قدمت تاريخي بسيار كهن به همپايگي شهرستان همدان و با تپه معروف گيان , در مجاورت استان لرستان قرار دارد كه بر اساس آملرگيري سال 75 داراي 184160 نفر جمعيت مي باشد . 99 درصد از جمعيت آن لر و لك و حدود 1 درصد را آذري و كردها تشكيل مي دهند .

ملاير

شهرستان ملاير با قدمت 200 ساله در مجاورت استان لرستان و شهرستانهاي لرنشين استان مي باشد و از 297062 نفر جمعيت 75 درصد فارس , 15 درصد لك و لر و 1 درصد ساكنان آن را آذري زبانان تشكيل مي دهند .

تويسركان

شهرستان تويسركان با قدمت طولاني و با جمعيت 118954 نفر از جنوب به شهرستان نهاوند و از غرب به كرمانشاه محدود مي شود كه اكثريت ساكنان آن لرولك مي باشند .

اسدآباد

شهرستان اسدآباد با 110077 نفر جمعيت , در مجاورت استان كرمانشاه قرار دارد كه 63 درصد از جمعيت آن فارس , 14 درصد آذري , 19 درصد كرد و 4 درصد ساكنان آن را لر و لك ها تشكيل مي دهند .

كبودرآهنگ

شهرستان كبودرآهنگ در 62کيلومتري شمال غربي همدان قرار دارد. بر اساس سر شماري 1375 جمعيتي بالغ بر 152813 نفر دارد که 88 درصد آن در نقاط روستايي و بقيه در نقاط شهري ساکن هستنند . 90 درصد جمعيت مذکور به زبان ترکي ,5 درصد فارسي و 5 درصد ديگر آن به کردي تکلم مي کنند .

رزن

شهرستان رزن در 85 کيلومتري شمال شرقي همدان قرار دارد که بر اساس سرشماري سال 1375 جمعيتي بالغ بر 12379 نفر مي باشد که 13 درصد آن در نقاط شهري و 87 درصد آن در نقاط روستايي سکونت دارند 47/99 درصد جمعيت مذکور به زبان ترکي تکلم ميکنند و 53/0 درصد نیز به دو زبان ترکي و کردي(دو زبانه) تکلم دارند.

بهار

شهرستان بهار با 12766نفر جمعیت و با قدمت هزار ساله در 15 کيلومتري شمال غربي شهرستان همدان قرار دارد که 25/62 درصد ساکنان آن در نقاط روستايي و 4/37 در نقاط شهري ساکن هستنند .ساکنان شهرستان بهار 3/86 درصد به زبان ترکي, 9/7 درصد کردي,5/4 درصد فارسي و 3/1 درصد به لري و لکي تکلم مي کنند

This is an official source. Kurdo777 (talk) 06:14, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

I apology for my carelessness (I've been very careless). I edit the article [6] and keep both of material. Is it satisfactory?--Ebrahimi-amir (talk) 06:39, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

Remove Kasravi, and it's fine. You just can't use a source from 1922 amir jaan. That's common sense. We also have a policy about outdated sources. Kurdo777 (talk) 06:53, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

Ok. I did it.--Ebrahimi-amir (talk) 07:05, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

Chokh mamnoon. Kurdo777 (talk) 08:39, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

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Take some Lithium

In 2023, Ebrahim Ali Molla-Beigi, director general of the Exploration Affairs Office of the Iranian Ministry of Industries, Mining and Trade announced the discovery of 8.5 million tons of Lithium reserves in the province. Hcobb (talk) 15:18, 4 March 2023 (UTC)

References

Language

@HistoryofIran: The source states that it falls within the same division of Turkic as South Azerbaijani. So it neither denies nor confirms that it's Azeri. However, we have an Iranica source cited in the same paragraph that confirms that this Turkic language is, in fact, Azeri: In the northern parts of the province, however, the language mostly spoken is Azeri Turkish […]. I don’t think it would be original research to assume that 'Turkic' in the linguistic table also refers to Azeri Turkish and not some yet-to-be-discovered distinct Turkic language. — Golden ^{call me maybe?} 19:12, 4 May 2023 (UTC)

Sorry, but that literally means that it is not Azeri. The Iranica source, however, considers it to be Azeri. In other words, it is disputed. --HistoryofIran (talk) 19:14, 4 May 2023 (UTC)

I wouldn't say so. It's worth noting that the source's classification page lists 'Hamadan Province Turkic' under South Azerbaijani. However, they do have a note stating this: The dialectology of Turkic in Hamadan Province has not been studied, but anecdotally, some varieties (tentatively referred to here simply as “Hamadan Province Turkic”) fall within the South Azerbaijani division of Central West Oghuz, whereas other varieties belong to the Afshar division of Southern West Oghuz. Since these two were not distinguished in the linguistic description of the province, it would be better to leave it as 'Turkic' for now. — Golden ^{call me maybe?} 21:44, 4 May 2023 (UTC)