Talk:Han Nyein Oo

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: rejected by Narutolovehinata5 (talk) 08:02, 28 April 2022 (UTC)
It appears that a suitably neutral article or hook were unfeasible at this time.

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• ... that the military lobbyist Han Nyein Oo used pornographic images and videos as a political weapon to revenge female activists who are currently engaged in a heated war of attrition? Source: "Revenge Porn Has Become a Political Weapon in Myanmar". The Diplomat. 9 August 2021.

Created by Taung Tan (talk). Self-nominated at 09:49, 20 March 2022 (UTC).

• Both the hook and the article have issues that preclude them from being at DYK without significant work, in my opinion.

• Earwig's Tool shows a number of sentences taken directly from English sources without attribution. There may be translation copyvio from Burmese sources, but Earwig won't catch those.
• The article needs a copyedit for grammar. For example, the sentence "Han Nyein Oo has been accused of engaging police officers and military troops to serve as his obedience followers" makes no sense. "Obedient followers," perhaps. "...many Burmese civil society groups are highly monitoring Han Nyein Oo's reports" is another example.
• Many of the claims in the article need more context or explanation. How exactly is a social media personality ordering the military and the cops around? On top of that, extraordinary claims about a BLP, especially negative ones, very especially negative ones pertaining to an ethnic conflict, require strong and reliable sourcing, and I'm not sure what's here is sufficient for us to be making these claims in Wikipedia's voice. At the very least we should be identifying who's making these claims in-text. For example, "News Agency X claims that Han Nyein Oo did XYZ."
• Lastly, even if the article's issues are corrected, this hook fails DYK criteria 4, which states that "Articles and hooks that focus unduly on negative aspects of living individuals or promote one side of an ongoing dispute should be avoided." There's not really any way to make a neutral hook for this guy, considering what he's notable for. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 01:58, 21 April 2022 (UTC)

• I have cleaned the copyright issues as far as I am able.— Diannaa (talk) 14:41, 21 April 2022 (UTC)

• Thanks Diannaa. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 19:25, 21 April 2022 (UTC)

• • I really didn't know some sentence are copyvio. If I know, I will not submit Dyk.

For neutral, do note I'm also an anti-military, I wrote articles of both sides. however, I created this article because "Han Nyein Oo" is a powerful figure in my country's military rule.

- Premeditated Chaos You questioned "How exactly is a social media personality ordering the military and the cops around?" You know nothing bcs you are not Burmese. Don't judge without knowledge on the politics of Myanmar. You can ask this to other Burmese editors. Han Nyein Oo is not only a social media personality but also a military spy. Many believed he is special military sponsored lobbyist. Some Burmese source says he is a former soldier. The military and police forces are follow his orders. How powerful he is?

- "many Burmese civil society groups are highly monitoring Han Nyein Oo's reports" — Everything in Myanmar monitoring his channel because he is a main source for arrest news. When he ordered to arrest someone that he hate, police forces really arrested and jailed victim. Many celebrities who opposed military junta were arrested of Han Nyein Oo's order. If I confess honestly, I'm also afraid Han Nyein Oo. Burmese alive in darkest military rule you are not.

— "The article needs a copyedit for grammar" : So what? If you have free time, pls you can.

All information I added to the article are came from sources. If you want to know more his about, pls come to Myanmar and see him. I'm so busy with plan to go Japan, there is no time to answer your more questions. Pls close this Dyk, if you want. I don't care. Thanks Taung Tan (talk) 15:31, 21 April 2022 (UTC)

Taung Tan, I don't doubt the seriousness of issues going on in Myanmar. However, this is Wikipedia, and our policies apply no matter what's going on in the real world. I can't "ask other editors" for evidence of things, I need to see reliable sources that back these claims up. You say it's clear to Burmese people how he orders the police around - that's fine, but it isn't clear to non-Burmese people. If we want this article to be useful to people outside of Myanmar, it's important to clearly explain these things. Now you're claiming he's a spy. Again, we need reliable sources to make these kinds of claims in a biography of a living person article. As the nominator and author, it's your responsibility to make the article clear for readers (including good grammar and copyediting) and compliant with the DYK rules. One of those rules is that the hook should not focus unduly on negative aspects of a person, and the hook you currently have proposed goes against that guideline. This article is not suitable for DYK in its current state. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 19:25, 21 April 2022 (UTC)

• @Premeditated Chaos: The nom has made some edits to the article. Have your concerns been addressed? Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 22:25, 25 April 2022 (UTC)

• I don't feel that they have. There are still problems with non-neutral/questionable phrasing. The sentence that begins "Han Nyein Oo has been accused of engaging police officers..." is POV and isn't in line with the source. The source claims that the subject collaborates with the police and military and provides them with information; this is a very different claim than saying he orders the military around as his followers. The grammar issues ("highly monitoring" etc) still remain. I also think DYK criteria 4 regarding negative BLPs and negative hooks about BLPs need to be considered here. Given what this guy is primarily notably for, I'm not sure that a hook that isn't negative can be created. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 22:53, 25 April 2022 (UTC)

• Premeditated Chaos I've fixed. Pls tell me if there is another fact that needs to be clarified. If you don't mind, can you choice another proper hook for me. TIA. Taung Tan (talk) 03:15, 26 April 2022 (UTC)
• if discussion is ongoing to try and push this article towards approval, I'll remove the marking for closure for now. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 04:48, 28 April 2022 (UTC)
  • Theleekycauldron, the issues with the article are all aside from my main objection, which is that this article cannot be suitable for DYK unless DYK criteria 4a is no longer in effect. I'll quote it again: "Articles and hooks that focus unduly on negative aspects of living individuals or promote one side of an ongoing dispute should be avoided." This person is solely famous for being a deeply partisan actor on one side of an ongoing ethnic dispute. A hook that avoids saying so would be deceptive, while one that does say so would by definition have to focus on the negative aspects of a BLP. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 05:25, 28 April 2022 (UTC)
    • @Premeditated Chaos in other words, any amount of editing would not fix this underlying problem, and further discussion is therefore unproductive? theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 05:27, 28 April 2022 (UTC)
      • Unless whoever makes the rules at DYK is no longer following 4a, yes, that is what I have been saying since day 1. I'm sorry to be frustrated but I don't know how I can say it any more clearly. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 05:37, 28 April 2022 (UTC)
        • No worries, that's my interpretation problem. let's revert back to a mark for closure. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 07:59, 28 April 2022 (UTC)