Talk:Hank Greenberg

5x MLB All-Star, info box ... is incorrect

Greenberg has 4 official MLB All-Star credits not 5 ([1] Baseball-Reference.com). There was no MLB All-Star Game in 1945; the official MLB All-Star rosters in 1945 were canceled. Greenberg's National Baseball Hall of Fame Plaque credits him with playing in "2 All-Star Games" (1939, 40). YahwehSaves (talk) 19:09, 14 March 2015 (UTC)

He is still credited with five all-star selections in pretty much every source I see.--Yankees10 17:55, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

He is definitely credited with 4 MLB All-Star Games. Don't know what are all those sources you're referring to since several baseball sources do say the 1945 MLB ALL-Star Game was cancelled (in February). 8 games were scheduled instead, and 7 played as interleague exhibition games and an Associated Press All-Star game for the Red Cross and War Relief Fund effort in 1945 during the All-Star break. MLB does not include the 1945 year (no game played) for the years adding up to the present 86th, July 2015 All-Star Game, so why is "1945" in his and the other 1945 Associated Press All-Stars info box? YahwehSaves (talk) 18:42, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

Here are a few sources that Yankees10 may be referring to. I don't have a strong opinion on this one - except for the opinion that we should stop obsessing over numbers of All-Star selections (over and over and gosh damned over again) and move on to bigger issues in this WikiProject. If it will help to bring this to a halt, here are some sources: this short ESPN piece; this WOSU interview featuring his biographer; the Appearances on Leader Boards, Awards, and Honors section near the bottom of his Baseball Reference page; this Library of Congress page; and this sports HOF encyclopedia. I don't know which way the balance tips here, but it would be ridiculous for anyone with Google to intimate that there aren't sources to support five AS selections. A footnote would be a way to present a more comprehensive explanation of the situation, but that would involve some compromise. EricEnfermero (Talk) 07:51, 24 March 2015 (UTC)

Its not a question as to whether there are five-time All-Star sources or not or should there be a footnote, but what is correct in the info box(s). Yankees10 doesn't allow non MLB awards and highlights in the info boxes except for the/his unofficial 1945 Associated Press All-Stars such as Greenberg for "1945". There are other sources that mention he was an All-Star four times, such as references mentioned in the article supporting Greenberg ("Other honors") that does not mention the 5th All-Star game (can anyone even find the game's score?) but "four consecutive All-Star teams", 1937 to 1940: The National Jewish Sports Hall of Fame [2] and the International Jewish Sports Hall of Fame [3]. YahwehSaves (talk) 17:20, 24 March 2015 (UTC)

When you said you didn't know where the five-time All-Star sources were, I took it as a question. I still think that a footnote is a reasonable solution and might even work in an infobox. No good reason has really been presented for not trying it. No score will be located for a cancelled game (I think forfeits are assigned a score - but that's not the case here). The point is not the game stats or score or who even played, but the selection. Sometimes that selection has come from fans; in other cases, it has not. EricEnfermero (Talk) 23:06, 24 March 2015 (UTC)

This is getting disruptive to me, as I said before which seems ignored (baseball-reference.com ....): there was no 1945 MLB AS Game which was cancelled on Febuary 8, 1945; there never was an official MLB, AL and NL roster selection due to the cancellation. The point is, the 1945 MLB All-Star game was cancelled and is not counted by MLB and shouldn't be in the info box for any MLB player. As I said before, there was instead a 1945 Associated Press All-Star Team selection (Baseball Almanac) that includes Greenberg that was put in his and other 1945 AP All-Stars info boxes. I can see like anyone he was a 5-time All-Star, but also seen is he is not a 5-time MLB All-Star but a 4-time MLB All-Star which is exactly what goes in the MLB info box. Unless I'm mistaken, I'm not allowed to make info box corrections and only certain editors are whether the correction is called for or not? That seems to explain the personal disruptions. YahwehSaves (talk) 01:57, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

I can understand feeling picked on, but I would look at it another way. Anyone is welcome to contribute edits, but anyone's edits might be changed or reverted, especially if they don't comply with Wikipedia consensus. There are some things on WP that I think are silly (punctuation outside of quote marks is hard to get used to!), but by being an active Wikipedian, I agree to go with the consensus - or let somebody else change my edits to the consensus.

You're making an argument to change consensus regarding our All-Star reporting, but consensus isn't changing; people have pointed out that even BR is a little inconsistent by including five lines under Greenberg's All-Star selections, even if one says "not played". If I dislike something that has been decided by consensus, I can bring it up again, but if I'm not convincing, consensus won't change. I shouldn't just go around inserting that stuff into articles just because I really think it's better. EricEnfermero (Talk) 03:01, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

You pointed here in talk that what matters is the "selection" (that he was selected an All-Star). Well my point is, the 2 pennant winning managers that by MLB rules in 1945 were to officially select the All-Stars did not, evidently because they were not allowed to by MLB since the AS Game for 1945 was cancelled before the season like I said. Is 4-time All-Star correct or not? That's what matters. Its not a matter of what you say I think or what you say consensus thinks or what you think is better, but what is correct (MLB does not consider him a 1945 AS). I really think 4-time All-star is "correct" and should be in the info box. YahwehSaves (talk) 22:28, 4 July 2015 (UTC)

External links moved to talk

If there's something in these that's not redundant to what's in the article and encyclopedic in nature, it should be included in the article body, appropriately sourced: --Ronz (talk) 18:31, 4 January 2016 (UTC)

• Jewish Virtual Library bio
• Jewish Major League career leaders
• Hank Greenberg Statistics and History
• Baseball Almanac
• Religion's Role in Hank Greenberg's Pursuit of Babe Ruth The New York Times
• Remembering a Legend: Benjamin "Hank" Greenberg
• Baseball in Wartime
• "The Original Hammering Hank: The Greatest Slugger Time Has Forgotten," David Dalin, The Weekly Standard, Oct 23, 2010, written in honor of the 100th anniversary of Greenberg's birth.

Most HR in a player's final season

Ref: "No player had ever retired after a final season in which they hit so many home runs. Since then, only Ted Williams (1960, 29), Dave Kingman (1986; 35), Mark McGwire (2001; 29), and Barry Bonds (2007; 28) have hit as many or more homers in their final season."

Now that David Ortiz of the Boston Red Sox has hit his 36th home run in what is supposed to be his final season, would it be proper to change that sentence to reflect this fact, or should it be left alone for the time being, since the season isn't over and Ortiz has (1) yet to officially retire, and (2) a few more home runs that he will likely tally by season's end? AJC3fromS2K (talk) 05:40, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

Friends

Hi Haley10jane (talk) 22:48, 3 January 2017 (UTC)

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Hank Greenberg 1933 RBI and career RBI total discrepancy

Baseball Reference and Retrosheet have his 1933 RBI total at 85 and career at 1,274, but all other sources have his '33 total at 87 and 1,276 career. Baseball Reference and Retrosheet are very reliable, so I wonder which stats are correct. Maybe BR and Retrosheet made a slight error.2601:581:8500:949C:80E3:A2F:D7A1:81A3 (talk) 15:46, 26 November 2017 (UTC)

Not really an error per se, but just representative of the fact that early baseball is plagued with statistical inconsistencies. Baseball fans have long had to live with slight irregularities in statistics. See here for more. EricEnfermero (Talk) 16:12, 26 November 2017 (UTC)