Talk:Hans Brinker, or The Silver Skates

Hansje Brinker

who was hansje brinker? im a schoolboy aged 11 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 159.134.62.245 (talk) 19:07, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

He is the same guy as Hans Brinker. Boys your age in Dutch have diminutive names, so Hans becomes Hansje ("Little Hans"), just like in English Peter would become Peterkin. The hero of the book offers the money he has saved to buy skates (speed skating is a very popular sport in Holland and Friesland) to a doctor to pay for the cure of his father. The physician, touched by this gesture, provides the cure for free however, so Hansje can buy the skates; but he lets a friend — who needs it more — win the Silver Skates. He is then rewarded by God by finding a hidden treasure.

Keep in mind, this is not the fellow putting his finger in the dyke, who remains nameless in the book. Also remember this is in reality not a feasible method. Should you notice any levees in your neighbourhood that are on the point of collapse, don't put your finger anywhere, but run to the competent authorities — unless you live in the USA of course where the best advice is to simply keep running, there being...

--MWAK 12:06, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, MWAK. I used some of your wording in the "Plot" section of the article. Softlavender (talk) 09:35, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Story in the Netherlands

I think the section about people not knowing the story in The Netherlands should be deleted. I live in The Netherlands and almost everybody I know have heard the story about Hansje Brinker. 86.88.213.176 19:00, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. I've changed it in the article. Guus 03:57, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

I'm Dutch and ironically, the first time I heard of this story was in a British documentary. It was also never mentioned at school, but this could something regional, since I live in Friesland and we were never really thought about the "culture" in the western provinces (Holland). --217.120.78.212 (talk) 00:19, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

I live in Groningen and studied and lived there and in Amsterdam and Leiden. I first heard of this story in an American documentary... Faithfully yours, Robert Prummel (talk) 10:07, 20 July 2014 (UTC)

Trephination not a lobotomy

The operation in the novel is not clearly defined, but from the nature of the problem and looking at what Raff was doing afterwards, I gather that it involves trephining (which is drilling into the skull to release the pressure of a hemotoma) rather than a lobotomy which has quite remarked effects (as seen in the film One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest Katana Geldar 03:53, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Dutchmen ignore it

re: the story in the Netherlands and Iblardi's edit, the book I reference states,"The Dutch, who are realists above all, know the boys feat is hydrolically impossible, and therefore unworthy of local consumption; Dutch children never heard the story. Dutch realism is also so innate that not many years ago (1965) a statue was erected honoring the boy with his finger in the dyke. It stands at Spaarndam, a small town near Haarlem, and is a regular stop on guided tours, especially those taken by Americans. Dutchmen ignore it." Therefore, byway of both the wiki article itself and a reliable source, I am led to believe that it is not an especially favored story within Dutch society. My edit was an attempt to strengthen the hint that the article already conveyed.--Buster7 (talk) 04:56, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Like I said in my edit summary, I think your additions ([1]) are dubious. Dutch people ignore it is just a choice of words by Rachlis which is OK in the context of that book, but when you take this tiny sentence out of its context and put it in an encyclopedic article, it almost sounds polemical, as if the statue is willfully ignored by Dutch people. You are given Rachlin's statement undue weight. The other problem is the addition This American story is "unfit for local consumtion". Ignoring the typing error, I would like to point out that without proper embedment this statement raises more questions than it answers. It is apparently a citation. This makes a reader wonder who has said that the story isn't fit for local consumption. (Did the local authorities decide that?) You didn't reference it; you only added a title (without year of publication) in the References section, but didn't link it to the citation in the text. Because of these considerations I thought your edits constituted no improvement and therefore I reverted to an older version. Iblardi (talk) 10:53, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

1) Thanks for mentioning the typing error (while at the same time ignoring it)

2) That is my understanding: that the statue is willfully ignored by the Dutch people, that it merely exists for the tourists, that the story of Hans Brinker is not embraced by the Dutch inhabitants of Spaarndam.

3) I think my edits do improve the article but I will let others decide.--Buster7 (talk) 11:15, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Well, I tried to "willfully ignore" the error, but apparently didn't succeed. ;)

Let's see what others have to say then. Iblardi (talk) 11:31, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

• I believe that my wordt "The story is not widely known in the Netherlands" is correct. It is not Dutch folklore. The book "the silver skates" is not in print in the Netherlands. Could it be that the story appeals to the Americans because of the sexual innuendo? A joke that does not translate into Dutch... Robert Prummel (talk) 15:18, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Yep, the text is fine as it is. Iblardi (talk) 17:17, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

- I disagree with the claim that "The story of the dike-plugging boy is... not widely known in the Netherlands — it is a piece of American, rather than Dutch, folklore". It may not be a piece of the Dutch folklore (which is not very much alive anyway, considering their pragmatic approach to life), and the book may not be in print, but it is widely known and regularly referred to in the media. It seems to pertain more to the realm of archetypes. People know this funny story, but have only a vague awareness as to its origin. If at all. As a foreigner I have heard Dutch people refer to it on numerous occasions during my 17 years in the Netherlands. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.101.52.22 (talk) 12:12, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

Skates?

It might be a good idea to explain where the skates fit into the plot! I see where it is partly explained here, but will leave it for someone who has actually read the novel. Clarityfiend (talk) 21:33, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Done. Softlavender (talk) 05:25, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Precision of wording

I'd like to discuss two words in two sentences which are currently in question in this article. In order for the article to be most accurate and most understandable and most readable, in my opinion certain words must be utilized/present in order for for matters to be clearest to the reader. The word "however" is in the sentence stating that the boy/dike story is not widely know in the Netherlands because it follows mentions of several statues of the boy/dyke in the Netherlands. The word also improves the rhythm and flow of the text, which is abrupt (not to mention an abrupt non-sequitur) and staccato without it. The word "actual" is in the sentence about the actual author of the boy/dyke tale, because the sentence refers to the actual author, not the plagiarizers and adaptors. For accuracy and sense this sentence needs either the word "actual" or "original". Softlavender (talk) 22:58, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

We don't generally use "actual" as it reduces meaning. "Author" would be fine. "However" is another tricky one; we generally exercise extreme care when using it. I don't see how it improves the article in this case. --John (talk) 23:18, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

"We don't generally use" is an opinion/perception, not policy. This is not a random use of the word, it's a clinically precise and judicious use of the word for reasons stated in my first post. "Actual" or "original" here not only do not reduce meaning, they establish important meaning — without either of them the sentence is incorrect and misleading. In terms of "however", the link you posted merely says "Words such as but, however, and although may imply a relationship between two statements where none exists, perhaps inappropriately undermining the first or giving undue precedence to the credibility of the second." There is indeed a relationship between the mention of several statues of the boy/dike and the clarification for the reader that, contrary to these appearances, this is not a part of Dutch folklore nor widely known in the Netherlands. There is no political or public-relations controversy involved here — "however" here does not create a prejudicial implication towards one side of any controversy versus another, which the quoted policy was concerned about: "however" is used here to clarify and make more precise. Would you mind reading my points above in my very first post and responding to each one specifically (as I did to yours)? Thanks very much, as that would eliminate the need for me to repeat myself. Cheers, Softlavender (talk) 00:11, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

Good writing is indeed a matter of opinion and perception, and not policy. --John (talk) 06:59, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

Not an American story

The fictional account of the "The Little Hero of Haarlem" first appeared in a British publication, and only later on an American one. Therefore it should be described as a legend of British literature, not American literature.101.98.161.149 (talk) 02:28, 10 May 2015 (UTC)

There's no actual proof where it originated; apparently it is from the French (Eugénie Foa), but this is unprovable as yet. In any case, it was not popularized until Hans Brinker, and therefore it is a legend of American literature, and became much more popular and well known in the U.S. than it ever was or has been in Britain. Softlavender (talk) 02:52, 10 May 2015 (UTC)

"Medical History"

I have removed a recently added one-sentence section called "Medical History" as it does not comply with Wikipedia guidelines in several ways: (1) It is trivia. (2) It is speculation, and unnecessary (and inaccurate) speculation. (3) One-sentence sections are not allowed. (4) This is not a medical article. (5) Mary Mapes Dodge was not a doctor or scientist, and did not describe a specifically named medical condition or its treatment. (6) It is inaccurate; we already know that Balzac described the condition and its surgical treatment in his novel Pierrette in 1840 [2], [3]. -- Softlavender (talk) 06:14, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

IMDB

Nikkimaria, the IMDb links are used to demonstrate that these films exist, and their release year, which is a very standard and established practice in many Wikipedia articles. The usage may be disputed but it is neither inappropriate nor forbidden; so do not remove the citations without WP:CONSENSUS or without changing to something else or without proving that they are incorrect. Do not leave the material uncited. I thoroughly checked that information in 2008 and the IMDB listings for these four films are all correct. This is not an FA article on a particular film; these citations are acceptible here unless you personally want to find different ones to replace them with. Softlavender (talk) 13:45, 6 August 2017 (UTC)

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