Talk:Happier Than Ever (song)/GA1

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Reviewer: K. Peake (talk · contribs) 20:29, 31 August 2022 (UTC)

Good Article review progress box

Criteria: 1a. prose () 1b. MoS () 2a. ref layout () 2b. cites WP:RS () 2c. no WP:OR () 2d. no WP:CV () 3a. broadness () 3b. focus () 4. neutral () 5. stable () 6a. free or tagged images () 6b. pics relevant () Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed

I will review this from tomorrow onwards! --K. Peake 20:29, 31 August 2022 (UTC)

Thank you! I think it would be best if only one of us addresses the review comments, to avoid edit conflicts. I'd be happy(er than ever) to do it since I have some time right now, Your Power.--NØ 06:54, 1 September 2022 (UTC)

@MaranoFan, thank you! That's good with me. I'm "Away from Me" home right now because I've been going back to classes, so I am extremely strapped for time these weekdays... Untroubled.elias (talk) 07:12, 1 September 2022 (UTC)

Infobox and lead

• The ref for writing is not needed in the infobox, when this is already sourced in the body
• Only soul should be listed as a genre per the rest being mentioned as elements
  • Actually, the cited source does indicate emo and pop-punk as explicit genres. I rewrote the corresponding sentence in the article prose accordingly Untroubled.elias (talk) 02:31, 2 September 2022 (UTC)
• Can't the release lengths be written in track listing to avoid placing refs here? Also, the album version is written out in prose already.
• WP:OVERLINK of Billie Eilish under songwriters
• Mention in the first sentence that it is "from her second studio album of the same name (2021)."
• "wrote it with its producer," → "co-wrote the song with the sole producer,"
  • Sorry MaranoFan but I will have to revert your edit that incorporated this. The "co-" prefix is redundant here (listing the other writer/s is enough to tell us she wrote the song with someone else), and naming one person as producer is usually good enough on its own to signal that the song had one producer. Untroubled.elias (talk) 02:32, 2 September 2022 (UTC)
    • I'm sorry but this is exactly the type of thing I wanted not to happen when we worked out the arrangement that I'll address the review comments. I don't appreciate this.--NØ 02:44, 2 September 2022 (UTC)
    • We did agree to that yes MaranoFan, but some of my reversions were necessary because some of the requests got things about the article information wrong or were detrimental to the article's readability or conciseness. See my comment on the genres for one example. I apologize profusely that I did not clarify this sooner when you first tagged me. To be clear, I'll let you handle most of the responses, but wherever I feel some healthy objection is necessary, I'll be bold and say it outright. I hope we still can keep our heads cool and work towards the common goal of improving the article's quality. Untroubled.elias (talk) 04:46, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

      And apologies to the reviewer Kyle Peake for my absentmindedness and the confusions that may arise ^^ Untroubled.elias (talk) 04:47, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

• Place the release sentence as the third of the lead instead
  • I placed it as the second - really I don't think it matters where in the first paragraph (or the lead for that matter) we mention its single release, but establishing as soon as possible that it was a single might be good. Untroubled.elias (talk) 02:32, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

• Writing should come first, as that happened before release obviously. --K. Peake 17:49, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

• "A soul, emo, and pop-punk song with elements of" → "A soul song with elements of genres including" listing out numerous ones since emo and pop-punk are not lead genres
  • See above comment about genre parameter in infobox Untroubled.elias (talk) 02:32, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

• That is fine with the given context, but still change the below part to "it is about" to avoid using the title twice in a para. --K. Peake 17:49, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

• ""Happier Than Ever" is about" → "it is about"
• "It opens with a" → "The song opens with a"
• Wikilink as snare drums instead
• Pipe distortion to Distortion (music)
• Replace the "off her second studio album..." part with "from the album", as the title should have been mentioned in the first sentence
• "It was included as one of her best songs to date in online lists." → "The song was listed as one of her best songs to date by multiple publications, including"
• Place the awards sentence directly after the above one
• ""Happier Than Ever" won a" → "The song won a"
• Wikilink music video and shouldn't you mention it was the same day as the single release instead?
• "Eilish speaks to someone through" → "Eilish performs the song through"
• Add in 2021 after The Tonight Show Starring Jimmy Fallon
• "performances of "Happier Than Ever" in" → "performances of it in"
• "in support of the album." → "in support of Happier Than Ever."
  • I would prefer that this not be done. Some folks who use screen readers might have a hard time telling if the article is referring to the song or the album when "Happier Than Ever" is mentioned. I'll inevitably be mentioning the album by name, obviously, but I want to make the references as clear as possible. Hence "second studio album, Happier Than Ever" is acceptable to me, but "'Happier Than Ever' provided it with its 'only one moment of greatness', and he lamented that the rest of Happier Than Ever was not as vocally loud and cathartic" is not. Untroubled.elias (talk) 02:32, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

Background

• Retitle to Background and development
• "as inspiration behind" → "as an inspiration behind" on the img text
• Remove singer-songwriter introduction to Billie Eilish since that being in the lead is sufficient
• Remove commas around the album title
• Ditto for Finneas O'Connell
• The CinemaBlend and Billboard citations should be swapped to correspond with the order of the singles listed
• "for her second studio album," → "for the album,"
• Pipe chorus to Refrain
• "They picked it" → "The two picked the song"
• "Finneas wanted the production to be dynamic, and" → "Finneas wanted the style to be dynamic and"
• Pipe programming to Programming (music)
• "she had to write." → "she had wrote." per the source

Composition

• Retitle to Composition and lyrics
• Audio sample looks good!
• ""Happier Than Ever" is a" → "Musically, "Happier Than Ever" is a"
• "Others wrote that it" → "Others wrote that the song"
• "upon its release," → "as of its release,"
• Pipe verse to Verse (music) per MOS:LINK2SECT
• "done on her voice." → "applied to her voice."
• "Multiple critics noted that her" → "Multiple critics noted that Eilish's"
• ""It was probably" → ""[It was] probably" per paraphrasing
• "can’t even explain it."" → "can't even explain it"." per MOS:QUOTE
• "fucking leave me alone."" → "fucking leave me alone"."

Release

• "are comingggg", on her" → "are comingggg" on her"
• "in the visuals of which she sits in" → "featuring visuals of her sitting in"
• "to contemporary hit radio in" → "to contemporary hit radio stations in"
• "and its radio edit was" → "and the radio edit was"

• Note: I had made all of the review changes up to this point but some seem to have been reverted out with this series of edits. Apologies, Kyle Peake.--NØ 02:54, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

• MaranoFan It is fine but in this context, only one of you should address these comments I believe. --K. Peake 17:49, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

Reception

• "who dubbed it a highlight include" → "who dubbed the song a highlight included"
• Remove pipe on Billboard
• "because it demonstrated" → "due to demonstrating"
• "provided it with its "only one moment of greatness"" → "provided it with the "only real moment of greatness"" per the source
• "Zoladz thought it was" → "Zoladz thought the song is"
• Mention that the best song ever rankings were in 2022
• "lungs" but never quite dare to." → "lungs", but never quite be able to." per the source

Rankings

• Maybe use the N/A formatting instead of placed in the table?

Accolades

• The list of MTV awards is confusing; why is it not mentioned as winning Song of the Year, why is Song of Summer treated like a separate ceremony with the first of two ands in the sentence and why is there not a comma before the usage of and per American English?
• "at NME Awards 2022," → "at the NME Awards 2022," but this award is not sourced

Commercial performance

• Pipe Billboard Hot 100 to Billboard Hot 100
• "chart issued for" → "chart issue for"
• "topped the country's Hot Rock & Alternative Songs, her second number one there" → "topped the US Hot Rock & Alternative Songs chart, becoming her second number one"
• Remove wikilink on "My Future"
• Reword the Canadian Hot 100 sentence to first mentioning the chart position, then add making it Eilish's seventh song...
• "It peaked at number four in" → "It peaked at number four on the UK Singles Chart in"
• Uncapitalize platinum and add BPI in brackets, mentioning it was in the UK and the date of the certification

• Generally I disagree with uncapitalizing the certification names since they are award titles and not metals. An attempt to discuss this did not lead to any particular conclusion, however I've capitalized them on all my FAs and that's what I've come to prefer. Also, abbreviations are discouraged unless used again.--NØ 06:04, 3 September 2022 (UTC)

• "reached number three," → "reached number three on the ARIA Singles Chart," with the pipe
• Again, platinum should not be capitalised and add ARIA in brackets while mentioning it was in Australia with the date
• "on the New Zealand singles chart, giving Eilish her 12th top-10 there." → "on the New Zealand Singles Chart, giving Eilish her 12th top-10 in New Zealand." with the pipe
• Decapitalise platinum and mention the country while adding RMNZ in brackets along with the date
• Any specific order for the top 10 of record charts?
• Only a peak of number 21 is sourced for Greece
• "number 5 in" → "number 5 in both"

• There are three countries in this part now so I've refrained from using "both".--NØ 06:04, 3 September 2022 (UTC)

• "number 8 in" → "number 8 in both"
• "and number 10 in" → "and number 10 in both"
• Platinum nor gold should be capitalised

Music video

• Mention that she performs the song over the telephone to a former partner
• "and completely submerges" → "and is completely submerged"
• Pipe Vulture to Vulture.com per MOS:LINK2SECT
• "honed the video as a" → "honored the video as a"
• Remove pipe on Billboard
• "of serenity", and that" → "of serenity" and that"

Live performances

• Img looks good!
• "of a storm. Joining her were a" → "of a storm, joined by a" to avoid overly short sentences
• Mention that the Jimmy Kimmel Live! performance was on top of The Roosevelt Hotel in Hollywood

• I'm assuming piping this to The Hollywood Roosevelt Hotel instead would be fine?--NØ 06:04, 3 September 2022 (UTC)

• Remove wikilink on Saturday Night Live
• Add the release year of "Male Fantasy"
• "Eilish accompanied the fictional character" → "Eilish was accompanied by the fictional character"
• "and sang it as a" → "and sang the song as a"
• Add the release year of "Misery Business"
• "On June 24, Eilish headlined for the year's Glastonbury Festival in the United Kingdom," → "On June 24, 2022, Eilish headlined the year's Glastonbury Festival in the UK,"
• Add a comma after Taylor Hawkins
• "She climbed atop the roof" → "The singer climbed atop the roof"

• I've been discouraged from doing this by people citing WP:ELEVAR before, so I've reverted to "Eilish" instead to avoid repetition.--NØ 06:04, 3 September 2022 (UTC)

• Add "the staff of" or something similar before The New York Times, also remove the wikilink
• "and described it as" → "and described the performance as"
• Remove comma after extended play

Credits and personnel

• Good

Charts

Weekly charts

• The Greece position is sourced as number 21 and should the chart really be identified as international?
  • I've seen this thread in Wikipedia talk:Record charts that says the songs listed in the linked chart are international songs. Indeed the title of the chart says "Digital Singles Chart (International)". I think it would be fine removing it if the chart covered Greek songs, but there is a separate one for that. ‍ ‍ Your Power 🐍 ‍ ‍ ^{💬 "What did I tell you?"}
    _{📝 "Don't get complacent..."} 06:10, 3 September 2022 (UTC)

Year-end charts

• Good

Certifications

• Good

Release history

• Pipe Radio airplay to Airplay

References

• Copyvio score looks decent at 38.7%
• Pipe Vulture to Vulture.com on refs 8, 32 and 129 per MOS:LINK2SECT
• UDiscover Music → uDiscoverMusic on ref 13, citing as work/website instead and piping to Universal Music Group
• Wikilink CinemaBlend on ref 15
• Why is YouTube not linked on ref 17?
• Cite NPR as publisher instead on refs 22, 34 and 138
• Remove or replace ref 26 per WP:RSP
• Cite AllMusic as publisher instead on ref 28
• Cite last name followed by first on ref 42
• Cite Triple J as publisher instead on ref 45
• Cite Associated Press as publisher instead on ref 51
• Pipe Complex to Complex (magazine) on ref 69 since this is the website section
• Cite MTV Australia as publisher instead on ref 77
• Cite Lakes Media Network as publisher instead on ref 92
• Cite Grammy.com as publisher instead on ref 95
• Wikilink Recording Industry Association of Malaysia on ref 109 and cite Facebook as via with the wikilink
• Only cite the publisher on ref 113
• Ref 118 should cite both the original and archive URLs

• This is generated automatically by the certification template so I assume some past discussion determined this was the best way of doing it.--NØ 06:04, 3 September 2022 (UTC)

• Why is Rolling Stone not linked on ref 128?
• Pipe Plötutíðindi to Music of Iceland on ref 181
• Cite Hitparade as publisher instead on ref 186

Final comments and verdict

•  On hold until all of the issues are fixed; this didn't take too long! --K. Peake 17:49, 2 September 2022 (UTC)
  • I believe everything is addressed now, Kyle Peake. If you find the explanations provided by me and Elias on a few comments satisfactory, I belive we can wrap this up!--NØ 06:04, 3 September 2022 (UTC)
    • The last comment addressed was the one about the Greece chart. I have made very minor typographical fixes, but they do not get in the way of the implemented suggestions above. Believe we are done here! Feel free to read through the article again if you must, although of course this isn't necessary. ‍ ‍ Your Power 🐍 ‍ ‍ ^{💬 "What did I tell you?"}
      _{📝 "Don't get complacent..."} 06:34, 3 September 2022 (UTC)

• MaranoFan This definitely looks better, but you should still mention at least the months + years of the certifications even if specific dates are too much to write continuously. Also, why is and used after Song of the Summer 2021 in the awards then a second time for the list for the same awards show? --K. Peake 08:46, 3 September 2022 (UTC)

• I've added the months + years in the places you had asked. And regarding the second question, the song was nominated at two separate VMA ceremonies, 2021 and 2022. I think a conjunction makes sense to separate the two ceremonies.--NØ 11:19, 3 September 2022 (UTC)

• ✓ Pass now, top job and I understand why you didn't implement certain changes! --K. Peake 06:38, 4 September 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.