Talk:Harbin/Archive 1

Archive 1

Russian name

I don't see why someone should add a Russian name to the head of the article. Harbin is not a Russian city. Snle 17:03, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Not any longer. But it was founded by Russians and the majority of its inhabitants were Russian for many decades.--Niohe 17:27, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

As I can see from your user page, you are not Chinese. You don't know Chinese history well. Harbin was not founded by Russians. Since you know Chinese, I suggest you to have a look at the Chinese version of this article for Harbin's history. It is too difficult to translate Chinese history into English. In addition, Russians were never the majority of Harbin. Where did you get that? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 918 (talk • contribs) 20:13, 1 October 2006.

Thanks for the tip, Zhang Qiang/Snle. According to the Chinese page, out of a total population of 68,549, there were 34,313 Russians and 23,537 Chinese in Harbin in 1913.--Niohe 20:32, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

I doubt the accuracy of these figures. Even if they are correct, it doesn't justify you to put Russian name here, because those Russians only temporily lived in Harbin and there is only tiny number of Russians living in Harbin now. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 918 (talk • contribs) .

Harbin was still under Russian rule, hence the Russian name should stay. —Khoikhoi 20:46, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

So apparently Chinese Wikipedia is not that useful after all? Or is it only useful when it supports your argument?--

Niohe 20:46, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

There is no such policy to justify you to put Russian name on the top of this article, simply because Russian once lived in Harbin for some years. 918 21:28, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Yes there is, I direct you to: Wikipedia:Redirect#What_needs_to_be_done_on_pages_that_are_targets_of_redirects.3F and Wikipedia:Guide_to_writing_better_articles#Principle_of_least_astonishment. When a user clicks through Kharbin and Harbin shows up, you better tell the user in the 1st paragraph why that happened. The path of quickest information is that pursued, by putting the former names in parantheses. I only only repeat myself: this is common pratice on Wikipedia. —Khoikhoi 21:31, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

You see. Taiwan was liberated by the Japanese from the Machu Qing's enslavement. And Taiwanese are quite grateful for that. If your reasoning holds water, then every city in Taiwan should have a Japanese name on the top of its article then. Zhang Qiang 15:26, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Interestingly, Vladivostok, Blagoveshchensk, Nikolayevsk-on-Amur, and Nerchinsk all mention their old Chinese names somewhere near the top of the article. Similarly, Yuzhno-Sakhalinsk mentions the old Japanese name, and Sakhalin lists the Japanese name, Chinese name, even the Korean name. The only glaring exception was Khabarovsk, which I've fixed a few minutes ago. -- ran (talk) 18:22, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

(removed comment by banned user) —Khoikhoi 04:47, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

It had significant russian minority. `'mikka (t) 23:41, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

In fact if the Communist Party of China was so much developed in that region it was as a consequence of Russian-Soviet influence as for decades Russians occupied what is now Heilongjiang and even the Trans-Siberian Train went through Heilongjiang to Vladivostok.

And it is nothing strange as Tianjing was under German influence, Shangai under British influence etc, etc. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.53.111.123 (talk) 06:38, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Economy

The economy section reads a bit like an advert for investing in harbin. Ottawakismet (talk) 16:50, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

Errors

Why are there so many errors about Harbin and Sungari? Why is this city written up to appear as if it suddenly popped up after the Chinese Revolution after World War II? This city was started by the Russians on a virgin soil, undeveloped except for a small fishing village in 1898, that grew into a large Russian town by 1930s, with many Russian churches, Lutheran church, Catholic church, synagogues, etc., with a Russian and other European population of some quarter-million people. Why are the Japanese listed as occupying Harbin during World War II, when they occupied it in 1932? Why is the Institute of Technology (originally called Polytechnicum) insisuated to be a Chinese universoity when it was originally started by the Russians in this Russian city (outside of Russia)? Why is there no mention that it was populated after the Russian Revolution mostly by the so-called White Russians who maintained the old, pre-revolutionary customs and traditions, incl. religious services and schools? Chinese Red Guards blew up the Harbin centerpiece during their fervor, destroying a beautiful and original landmark of artistic architectural value. Since then the PRC government has been trying to solicit donations from the Russian harbinites elswhere in the world (US especially) to restore this monument that had attracted many tourists before its destruction. How is that for hutzpah?

Good morning (or whatever time it may be in your corner of the world). If you are knowledgeable about he subject, please go ahead and rewrite the article. That´s how wikipedia works. Welcome! 141.83.15.155 06:06 3 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Well if you type that into the entry, disputes can arise. And I would be the first one to question you if you did so.

city info template

can anyone insert a city info template? i.e. population, wheather, density, area. etc. e.g. see the one for Montreal

Benzene Leak Dates

I don't understand the dates given. It states that 'On 22 November 2005 city officials announced that the water will be cut off for four days. The price of bottled water doubled, schools and public bathhouses were closed. The next day water was, however, reinstated for 12 days because officals concluded that the toxic water would not reach the city until 24 November.' Surely this should be two days, since otherwise, the water would not be cut off until December, by which time the benzene would have passed and people already poisoned. smurrayinchester^{(User), (Talk)} 20:16, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

Someone has updated it to the more reasonable 12 hours. Thank you! smurrayinchester^{(User), (Talk)} 16:14, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

9 million

If 9 million people live in this city, why is it not in the List of metropolitan areas by population? Piet 10:41, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

The BBC [1] gives the population closer to 3.4 million; 9 million would be larger than Beijing metropolitan area. smurrayinchester^{(User), (Talk)} 16:05, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

I have removed the number. Not nice, but I figured no information is better than false information. Hopefully someone has a reliable source (please link to it). Piet 14:59, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

User:El C has put the population figures and I've put the link to the Government website which gives this information. This matter is now closed ? Manik Raina 14:24, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

Historical names

I've directed the discussion towards Talk:Dalian#Historical names—please discuss there. —Khoikhoi 17:54, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Edit

I deleted the sentence "Harbinians love sushi" because I felt that this comment is irrelevant to the introduction of the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.170.203.92 (talk) 19:43, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Agreed, and three is no resource for that statement. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 15.243.233.68 (talk) 23:13, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

Hmmm... Really, actually, I think that those kinds of things add to the flavour of an article. Apparently, harbin people love bread, its part of their culture, why can sushi not be popular too. Perhaps though it can be put back in if we can find something to substantiate it with a reference. Anyway, wikipedia sometimes misses getting the more interesting but hard to define characteristics of a city/community. Ottawakismet (talk) 16:55, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

Events on October 11, 2008

On October 11, 2008, at a popular nightclub/bar, there was a skirmish that escalated, first into a young student attacking an off-duty police officer with a brick, and eventually led to the student's death at the hands of the police officer's fellow off-duty cops. Since the boy's father was a pretty important man in China (apparently the president of one of this region's largest banks), this has been VERY big national news here in China. I searched the wiki, and I was surprised that I could find no articles relating to these events. I don't know much about wiki protocol, and I am guessing the city's main article page isn't the place to mention such an event; after all, people die in fights every day, in every city. However, considering the national prominence of this event, I am wondering if the event itself deserves it's own article. Any thoughts? Does anyone know of this article already existing?Macenblu (talk) 03:14, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

You can write a separate article about it. But it's not notable enough for an entry on Harbin's wiki page. This is a city of 5 million people. One brawl that resulted in death does not merit an entry here YET. Unless this manifests into something bigger, for example, some sort of reform in China's police system. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 15.243.233.68 (talk • contribs) 07:13, October 25, 2008

Weather?

Could someone add something about Harbin's weather? I heard it's pretty bad, but I wanna know how intense it is. ★Dasani★ 09:52, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

not sure how to add this info to the article, cuz i don't know what "intense" is to different people. This is my first winter in Haerbin, so i haven't experienced the late january february yet. now in january, the temp is around -10 to -15 degrees celsius daily, with some days that dip pretty low (-20) and then some surprisingly mild days (yesterday was 0 degrees). based on natives i have talked to, we get between 1 and 2 meters of snow fall per year. all in all, i don't think the weather is too "intense"....the only time it gets cold for me is when you can't find a taxi, which DOES happen often.Macenblu (talk) 02:11, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

the climactic data says otherwise. a few millimetres of precipitation translates at most to that amount of snow in centimetres. This is snow we are talking about here: 100–200 centimetres of snow is a vague range. --HXL 何献龙 21:33, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

Poles in Harbin

There were many thousand Poles living in Harbin in 1921. Many of the Polish railway employers seeked work from Chinese Eastern Railway in 1898 - 1914 and many Polish origin railway personel were transfered by the Russians to Harbin during the general Russian retreat from Russian Poland in 1915 to work on Chinese Eastern Railway. After the Great War the Republic of Poland tried to help the Polish population to return back to Poland but due the Chinese internal clashes between the local War Lords and lack of power of the Government to nominate their own representantive to Harbin, the newly appointed Polish minister to China and Japan Mr Targovski, later replaced by Mr Patek, could not do much from Tokyo to help the Polish population to return to Poland due the attitude of Chinese Central Government toward Polish diplomatic representantives in Japan. These Poles seems to have been classified wrongly as Russians because they were from Russian Poland. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.114.196.175 (talk • contribs) 03:07, April 3, 2009

Russian name

Could someone please add an English transliteration for Харби́н. Lfh (talk) 13:37, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

Pinyin

Should the IPA pinyin be xɑ˥˥əɻ˩pin˥˥ instead of xɑ˥˥ɑɻ˩pin˥˥ (based on Hāěrbīn)? Squc (talk) 15:22, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

I do not understand IPA yet take your word, especially if the old IPA indication is based on an Anglicised pronunciation of the Western name of the city. ---HXL 何献龙 21:35, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

Climate graph

I think you clearly mis-understood. In my summary, I was referring to the geography information only, and not the chart. The reason why it was temporarily removed is because the chart won't fit neatly around the text; there is far too little text in the Geography section. I have been reverted on two articles today, so please be conciliatory. --HXL's Roundtable and Record 17:37, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

You say your removed the chart "temporarily", so do you mean you are going to put it back? I still think the chart should be in the article because the low temperatures of Harbin are quite notable. We can move it somewhere else if it didn't fit nicely where it previously was. Laurent (talk) 03:35, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

well once I find enough additional geographic information, I may well put the chart right back in. But for now, as climate is part of geography, I see little reason to place it outside of Geo. Unless, that is, we mimic the layout of the Chongqing article.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Xiaoyu of Yuxi (talk • contribs) 12:13, February 22, 2011

I restored the chart for now. It's relevant and useful information that shouldn't be removed just because it doesn't fit nicely in the section. Laurent (talk) 15:27, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

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History - biased language

The phrase "revolutionary martyrs", used in the is most emphatically not neutral language. As I am not familiar with the individuals so described, I hesitate to edit so as to miss a particular distinction. Were they PLA soldiers, communist guerilla fighters, or something else? I am further concerned that there may be some potential revisionism in general in this article's history section, as the sudden "emigration" of the rest of the European community in just four years (1950-54) is quite unexplained. Was it a forced removal or due to general anti-Western sentiment or for some other reason? I believe that this section of the article is coming from a pro-regime point of view, rather than an unbiased one. Jdblue82 (talk) 05:49, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

Actually most of foreigners left Chinese Mainland after the Communist force established PRC, not only in Harbin, but also in other major Chinese cities. Lzy881114 (talk) 12:21, 4 February 2014 (UTC)

"Byzantine"

The article claims that St Sophia "is a typical representative of the Byzantine architecture". Leaving aside the catachrestic "the", the Byzantine empire ended in 1453 and the cathedral was built in 1907, so plainly the latter is not representative of Byzantine architecture. Deipnosophista (talk) 12:48, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

Control of Harbin in the post-1945 civil war

The article as it reads today states that "Harbin never came under the control of the Kuomintang". However, postal history of the period indicates otherwise. I can't find the reference where I read it, so I haven't edited the article. The first set of stamps for the People's Posts of the North East, issued on 22nd November 1946, depicting Mao Zedong, were normally perforated (details can be validated in stamp catalogues). However, I've seen it stated that the communist authorities took with them printed but imperforate sheets of these stamps when they withdrew from Harbin and the $2 and $10 stamps were subsequently issued in other communist controlled regions of the North East in that imperforate state (the $1 and $5 values are also known imperforate, but never officially issued). If the communist postal authorities withdrew from the city, I think it highly likely that the city was, for a time, under nationalist control. Sorry, I have no dates or references, perhaps others can supply? WestNab (talk) 12:15, 14 June 2015 (UTC)

Harbin or shenyang is the biggest city of southeastern china?

none. Qiuqiuziziz (talk) 03:09, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

External links modified

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• Added archive https://archive.is/20120729120614/http://www.dayoo.com/roll/201105/13/10000307_104198994.htm to http://www.dayoo.com/roll/201105/13/10000307_104198994.htm
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100203161843/http://sinoforum.pl/historia/harbin-najbardziej-polskie-z-chinskich-miast/ to http://sinoforum.pl/historia/harbin-najbardziej-polskie-z-chinskich-miast/
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• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150813034434/http://www1.korea-np.co.jp/sinboj/sinboj2002/8/0826/81.htm to http://www1.korea-np.co.jp/sinboj/sinboj2002/8/0826/81.htm
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100923171112/http://www.cc.matsuyama-u.ac.jp/~tamura/731butai.htm to http://www.cc.matsuyama-u.ac.jp/~tamura/731butai.htm
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120601053642/http://english.gov.cn/2005-08/06/content_20912.htm to http://english.gov.cn/2005-08/06/content_20912.htm
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20061213112051/http://www.cpi.com.cn/cpi-e/stamp/1996/1996-2.asp to http://www.cpi.com.cn/cpi-e/stamp/1996/1996-2.asp
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20131016192548/http://old-cdc.cma.gov.cn/shuju/search1.jsp?dsid=SURF_CLI_CHN_MUL_MMON_19712000_CES&tpcat=SURF&type=table&pageid=3 to http://old-cdc.cma.gov.cn/shuju/search1.jsp?dsid=SURF_CLI_CHN_MUL_MMON_19712000_CES&tpcat=SURF&type=table&pageid=3
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120906040450/http://www.tjcn.org/rkpcgb/rkpcgb/201112/22408.html to http://www.tjcn.org/rkpcgb/rkpcgb/201112/22408.html
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140306231357/http://www.hljnews.cn/fou_baoye/2005-10/25/content_884048.htm to http://www.hljnews.cn/fou_baoye/2005-10/25/content_884048.htm
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071102145937/http://www.cnto.org.uk/harbin/2007_10_23_16/20071023165258827.htm to http://www.cnto.org.uk/harbin/2007_10_23_16/20071023165258827.htm
• Added {{dead link}} tag to http://ent.sina.com.cn/y/2006-08-08/14401191418.html/
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?Large population from the Russian diaspora?

@Nzo9: For nearly 5 years the lede has claimed that Harbin housed a large population from the Russian diaspora. According the article's own numbers, there are less than 1000 Russians in Harbin. The city contains more than 10,000 Mongols and 100,000 Koreans. Russia is a nation of 140,000,000 people. The claim was added to look as though a reference supported it when it didn't. The situation has been corrected. Tapered (talk) 07:37, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• Harbin Opera House .jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 11:52, 29 January 2023 (UTC)

Population in infobox

Why is metro poulation LOWER than the urban one? PAper GOL (talk) 08:54, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

After World War II - control of Harbin

At present we have the statement "The Soviet Army took the city on 20 August 1945[64] and Harbin never came under the control of the Nationalist Government, whose troops stopped 60 km (37 mi) short of the city.[65]". But reference 65, https://www.soldat.ru/spravka/freedom/6-china.html, does not mention what happened after Soviet troops took Harbin on the 20th August 1945. Did reference 64? The link, to a page on the USA Combined Arms Center website is broken. I ask because many people think that Harbin was effectively under Nationalist control from sometime after the Soviets took the city until April 1946, when the Soviets effectively handed it over to the CCP. Evidence of Nationalist control is shown by the use of stamps overprinted in Peking with "Limited for use in the North East", for use by Republican controlled post offices in the northeast, issued in February 1946, in Harbin in March (and perhaps earlier and later). WestNab (talk) 14:09, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

About the literal meaning of Harbin?

Hi! If you translate this website this website with Google Translation, You will find a sentence that says: "Harbin" comes from the Jurchen language "Harwen", which means "swan". Because that website is the city government website, it should be a reliable source. This is different from the "Place of Drying Fishing Nets" statement introduced by English Wikipedia. I wonder if I can add it to the article? --邻家的王子 (talk) 03:56, 16 March 2024 (UTC)

@Uness232 and Ivanvector:Suspected source, but not sure if it counts as original research. See also: Google Books (in Chinese). In addition, [2] [3] I found that some websites said that the literal meaning of "Harbin" comes from "Alejin", which means "honor". -邻家的王子 (talk) 14:01, 29 March 2024 (UTC)