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Talk:Hard (song)/GA2

< Talk:Hard (song)
Latest comment: 13 years ago by Wikipedian Penguin in topic GA Reassessment

GA Reassessment

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Latest comment: 13 years ago77 comments9 people in discussion

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

This discussion has been closed and the article has passed GAR.

I've listed this article for GAR because I think the article is a mess. The references are poorly formatted, with countless missing work and publisher parameters, as well as other unformatted references causing cite errors in the references section, there are several cases of WP:OR throughout the article too, with "citation needed" codes. The Lead seems to be lacking in info as well. The article seems to be lacking prose in multiple sections and it quite short, considering there is a lot of info about the song and was relatively successful. The article received GA status in April 2010, and editors are clearly not monitoring the state the the article. If the song is un-listed, I will do everything possible to make the article a GA again. I could easily c/e the article right now, but then my c/e will go unnoticed and I think that a different set of eyes should be enlisted to review the article again, to ensure that it's quality is acceptable. Calvin • NaNaNaC'mon! 17:02, 17 August 2011 (UTC)Reply

Procedural requirements

Calvin, I have transcluded this review page. I have also notified the nominator and also informed the reviewer. The instruction page is here for future reference. Thank you. --Efe (talk) 03:23, 20 August 2011 (UTC)Reply

Comments by Status

I don't think this is an appropriate reassessment to tell you the truth. There are hardly that many issues with the article, and they wouldn't be that hard to fix. Why is everything seem to be about getting credit? What about just improving the quality of an article for its purpose? Who is really looking to see what articles you took to GA? Seems pointless to me. I'm gonna go ahead and do what I can do on the article, and look more into this... — Status {talkcontribs  00:28, 26 August 2011 (UTC)Reply

Actually, looking at the article. It is indeed a mess. It will take some work, yes. But I still don't like your reasons Calvin. — Status {talkcontribs  00:40, 26 August 2011 (UTC)Reply
Well, what other reasons can you find for it being a mess then? Because all of mine are valid. And it's not about getting credit, I just want it to be re-assessed when I have finished c/e it to ensure it is to GA standard. Surely that is the more preferably option? Calvin • NaNaNaC'mon! 11:19, 26 August 2011 (UTC)Reply
Calvin, if you intend to fix this after it gets the gray icon (delisted), why not just fix them while its still green. Besides, you're a Rihanna fan. That rationale actually (aside from the objective ones) are sort of disruptive if practised. That suggestion is circuitous. --Efe (talk) 12:55, 26 August 2011 (UTC)Reply
How am I mean't to ensure that it is still of GA status though? Calvin • NaNaNaC'mon! 12:58, 26 August 2011 (UTC)Reply
You'll know when all of the issues that are brought up in this reassessment are fixed. Wikipedia is not about credit. I Help, When I Can.[12] 15:05, 26 August 2011 (UTC)Reply
Calvin, you said yourself: "I could easily c/e the article right now, but then my c/e will go unnoticed..." How does that infer anything else? As you are planning on doing the work anyway, you should be doing it now. I'll be sure to come back here again and review it over, and I'm sure other users will as well. Don't think of it as not getting credit for making it a GA, think of it as getting credit for keeping it a GA. — Status {talkcontribs  20:22, 26 August 2011 (UTC)Reply
Okay but just keep this review open! Calvin • NaNaNaC'mon! 20:22, 26 August 2011 (UTC)Reply

I will edit this article to how it should be for GA, so can this review stay open until I have finished it? I've started it so please excuse the cite error templates, the references are a complete mess and all of the place, it is late now so I will do the entire article tomorrow. Calvin • NaNaNaC'mon! 15:11, 26 August 2011 (UTC)Reply

You know as a GAN reviewer the standards of a GA article. Its up to you if still want the reassessment up and open for other editors' comment. But if you intend to fix it yourself, better close this, we suggest. Thanks. --Efe (talk) 15:32, 26 August 2011 (UTC)Reply
I don't see why I am being put in a corner for this. Personally, I would have thought that you would like to keep it open so it can be reviewed once I have made the changes to ensure that it is acceptable. I would have thought this would have been preferable? Calvin • NaNaNaC'mon! 15:51, 26 August 2011 (UTC)Reply

Done

edit

I have completely copy-edited the article, this was what the article looked like before, and obviously the current article is the one I have improved. Please tell me of anything you can see what needs to be corrected. Calvin • NaNaNaC'mon! 14:15, 29 August 2011 (UTC)Reply

Quick comments from Wikipedian Penguin

I promised myself that I wouldn't review another Rihanna article,due to the way WYT turned out, so I'll make this quick and brief.

  • "Rude Boy"!? Lol.
    Oops! lol Calvin • NaNaNaC'mon!
  • Bajan or Barbadian? I am too confused over this; the Rihanna articles are extremely iniconsistent.
    Well always change back to Barbadian now, even thought Rihanna self-identifies as Bajan. Calvin • NaNaNaC'mon!
    I think Barbadian is more appropriate. Besides, Rihanna article has been using that long before. --Efe (talk) 14:49, 29 August 2011 (UTC)Reply
  • "Musically, "Hard" is a Hip hop." Okay?
    Done Calvin • NaNaNaC'mon!
  • "The song debuted on the US Billboard Hot 100 at number eighty, and peaked at number eight seven weeks later for one week, becoming her thirteenth top-ten single and sixteenth top-twenty hit this decade, re-tying her with Beyoncé Knowles as the female artist with the most top ten hits on the Hot 100 in the 2000–2009 decade" A bit long. Maybe use some semicolons to split it up?
    Done Calvin • NaNaNaC'mon!
  • "the song managed to chart in several countries" → "It..."
    Done Calvin • NaNaNaC'mon!
  • "upon the release of the music video" Replace"upon" with "following".
    Done Calvin • NaNaNaC'mon!
  • "peaking within the top ten in Canada and the top twenty in New Zealand and on the UK R&B Chart." Too many "and"s.
    Done Calvin • NaNaNaC'mon!
  • "Rihanna assuming" I have pointed this issue out a few times in WYT.
    Done Calvin • NaNaNaC'mon!
  • "as well as at the 2009 American Music Awards"
    Done Calvin • NaNaNaC'mon!
  • Avoid the use of "whilst" on Wikipedia, as it is considered too formal.
    Done Calvin • NaNaNaC'mon!
  • "and peaked at number eight for one week on January 30, 2010" → Did you mean: "and peaked at number eight for one [the] week o[f] January 30, 2010"
    Done Calvin • NaNaNaC'mon!
  • You don't have to write every number in words. Use numerals for double-digits.
    Done Calvin • NaNaNaC'mon!
  • In the Release history, what's the format for the UK release?
    Done Calvin • NaNaNaC'mon!


This includes lead nitpicks and general comments for the while article. Consider another thorough copyedit for the whole article. —WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ] 14:45, 29 August 2011 (UTC)Reply

Done them, thanks :). Calvin • NaNaNaC'mon! 14:59, 29 August 2011 (UTC)Reply
One more thing, the reference columns are too narrow. On my screen, five of them are showing up, which is too much. —WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ] 22:50, 29 August 2011 (UTC)Reply
  Done How is it for you now? Calvin • NaNaNaC'mon! 00:01, 31 August 2011 (UTC)Reply
Good; keep it that way. —WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ] 00:42, 31 August 2011 (UTC)Reply

Comments by Jivesh

edit

  Doing... Jivesh • Talk2Me 15:46, 1 September 2011 (UTC)Reply

Lead
My dear, i told you to link rapper to Rapping. Do you get it now? Like this [[Rapping|rapper]]. Is it clear? There is no page for rapper on Wikipedia. Jivesh • Talk2Me 19:26, 1 September 2011 (UTC)Reply
  • overal >>> correct spelling
    Done Calvin • NaNaNaC'mon!
  • as well as the Rihanna's vocal performance >>> re-write
    Done Calvin • NaNaNaC'mon!
  • US Billboard Hot 100 >>> add the word chart after 100
    Done Calvin • NaNaNaC'mon!
  • in the 2000–2009 decade >>> Normally, it should be the 2000s decade
    Done Calvin • NaNaNaC'mon!
  • And you changed what is in the source completely. The source reads as since 2000 and you say the 2000-2009 decade while "Hard" was released only in 2010. Make the necessary corrections here and in the chart performance section
      Doing... Calvin • NaNaNaC'mon!
      Done Calvin • NaNaNaC'mon! 21:29, 4 September 2011 (UTC)Reply
  • it managed to chart in several countries >>> it appeared on numerous charts in other countries
    Done Calvin • NaNaNaC'mon!
  • as well as the 2009 American Music Awards >>> was it performed at the same time? I guess she cannot be in two places at once. So change to and later at the 2009 American Music Awards
    Done. I think it's kinda obvious that it isn't at the same time, but I changed it anyway. Calvin • NaNaNaC'mon!
Not everyone would have interpret that correctly. Everyone who visits Wikipedia need not be a native speaker of English. I know what i am talking about especially because i am not a native speaker of English. Jivesh • Talk2Me 19:26, 1 September 2011 (UTC)Reply
The rest is coming after 2 hours. Jivesh • Talk2Me 15:57, 1 September 2011 (UTC)Reply
Done the Lead. I am going out now, will continue tomorrow. Calvin • NaNaNaC'mon!
Background and composition
  • In an interview with MTV News, producer Mikkel S. Eriksen of Stargate confirmed "Wait Your Turn" as the second single from Rated R, however, it was later announced that "Hard" was chosen instead, with the reason for doing so being undisclosed >>> Cut into two separate sentences as they are backed by two different sources.
  • "I can’t talk about what happened, but it’s really good for me [laughs]. We delivered a very, very big record, but I can’t say what the name of it is or anything, just for the simple fact that it’s actually top secret. It’s definitely going to be a single. It’s either going to be the first or the second single. I do know that." >>> Is this really needed? I find it somehow repetitive and kind of misplaced.
  • During the interview, Stewart described the song >>> Remove During the interview,'
  • ""Hard" (The Remixes) were made available for digital download on January 19, 2010 in the United States." should go just after the introductory sentence of this section so that everything flows better because what comes up next belongs to composition.
  • musical element >>> musical elements
  • Musically, "Hard" incorporates the musical element of hip hop and lasts for a duration of four minutes and ten seconds and features militant horns, hissing synths, pin-sharp beats, and piano notes >>> Wow at the number of and. Make two or more sentences. This is way too long judging from the amount of information it is laying emphasis upon.

Jivesh • Talk2Me 19:03, 1 September 2011 (UTC)Reply

Done Calvin • NaNaNaC'mon! 18:18, 2 September 2011 (UTC)Reply
Critical reception
  • of Billboard >>> of Billboard magazine
  • Herrerra continued to conclude >>> Does this mean she began the review directly with a conclusion? If no, re-word
  • Rude Boy >>> 'Rude Boy'
  • commented on the collaboration >>> is getting quite repetitive here.
  • Excessive use of the word commented. There are several replacements.
  • on the vocal style and persona that Rihanna incorporates >>> should be adopts
  • Instead of using saying, use writing. Just like last time you tel me, X from MTV News was not interviewing Rihanna but only wrote the article, this is kind of same here. We weren't there to know that the reviewing was saying.
  • Do not get me wrong but the prose on this section is below satisfactory level.
The rest will be done tomorrow hopefully. I am tired. Quite a lot of work to be done here. Best of luck. Regards. Jivesh • Talk2Me 19:10, 1 September 2011 (UTC)Reply
'Done Calvin • NaNaNaC'mon! 22:08, 2 September 2011 (UTC)'Reply
Chart performance
  • US Billboard Hot 100 >>> add the word chart after 100
  • You are using acharts as a source and you are placing Billboard in the work parameter. This should never be repeated. And acharts is not allowed.
  • The song became her thirteenth top-ten single and sixteenth top-twenty hit this decade, re-tying her with Beyoncé Knowles as the female artist with the most top ten hits on the Hot 100 in the 2000–2009 decade >>> I hope you still remember what i told you for the lead about this. The corrections need to be applied here as well.
  • The correct source for the number one position on the US dance club songs chart is this.
  • on March 6, 2010, >>> issue dated March 6, 2010 and remove the comma
  • as well as peaking at numbers >>> numbers??? Why use this when you can add the word number before each position. Please change.
  • "Hard" has since been >>> "Hard" was
  • units >>> downloads
  • due to the release >>> after the release
  • the Top 10 >>> why is the "T" capitalized?
  • on February 6, 2010 >>> again use issue dated for all Billboard charts
  • In Canada, the song peaked inside the Top 10 at number nine for one week on February 6, 2010,[20] while in New Zealand, "Hard" debuted at number 40 on January 11, 2010 and peaked at number fifteen in it's fifth week, where it stayed in the top twenty for a further two weeks.[21] >>> Break the sentence into two or more.
  • the week after, charting at number 55 >>> simply the week after at number 55
  • made it's first >>> it's???
  • until it exited on March 3, 2010 at number 100. >>> How can you say it exited at number 100? Replace until it exited on March 3, 2010 after having charted at number 100 the previous week. Check the date if needed

Jivesh • Talk2Me 11:49, 2 September 2011 (UTC)Reply

Done Calvin • NaNaNaC'mon! 22:16, 2 September 2011 (UTC)Reply
Music video

This will be done later. I am quite busy today. Anyway, you already have so many things to fix. Novice also left some comments. Jivesh • Talk2Me 11:54, 2 September 2011 (UTC) >BackgroundReply

  • Link music video here or somewhere else if it appears somewhere else first.
  • however needs a comma just after
  • music video's???
  • Prior to the video being released, >>> Prior to the premiere of the video,
  • about the ideas and concepts >>> change it to concept simply. Ideas make the concept IMO

>Synopsis'

  • Read the whole section again and find the errors yourself, i will just mention some of them like 'wearing wearing
  • rap sequence >>> rap verse is better
Done, but I disagree about the ideas and concept comment. Calvin • NaNaNaC'mon! 22:21, 2 September 2011 (UTC)Reply

>Reception

  • One review does not come to acclaim. Replace the word
  • In his review of the song, James Dinh on MTV News decided to take the video on a small player into Times Square in New York City to ask fans on the street what they thought of the video, with most concurring that it was different to any of her previous video's, that it shows where she came from and where she is going, with regard to what had happened in her personal life, as well as saying that she looked "sexy" in the video. This is incredibly long.
  • As far as i know, Idolator (website) is not a magazine.
  • However, the video not meet Bill Lamb's of About.com expectations,
  • saying??? Replace with writing
  • the videos insensitivity
  • and using army and weapons >>> and use of army and weapons
    Done Calvin • NaNaNaC'mon! 15:31, 4 September 2011 (UTC)Reply
Live performances

  Not done yet.

Yeah I know I haven't. This wasn't even here last night. Calvin • NaNaNaC'mon! 12:14, 3 September 2011 (UTC)Reply
Calvin, i meant i have not looked at this section yet. Lol. Sorry for any misunderstandings caused. Jivesh • Talk2Me 18:31, 3 September 2011 (UTC)Reply
  • Jay-Z's concert at >>> Jay-Z's concert held at
  • Rihanna performed the song for the at the launch of the Nokia X6 smartphone
  • the latter of which, Rihanna was joined on stage by Jay-Z to perform the song. >>> Try to re-word
  • Rihanna also performed the song at the 2009 American Music Awards, which was televised on November 22, 2009 at the Nokia Theatre in Los Angeles, California, This does not flow well
  • Rihanna made her Saturday Night Live performance debut >>> Rihanna made her Saturday Night Live debut performance
  • Did Jeezy also join Rihanna on on BET's 106 & Park?
    Yes. Calvin • NaNaNaC'mon!
  • "Don't Stop the Music" linked twice in the same section
  • The following day, Rihanna taped and performed a number of songs for "AOL Music Sessions" on February 2, 2010,
    ? Calvin • NaNaNaC'mon!
The following day........on February 2, 2010??? Jivesh • Talk2Me 15:54, 4 September 2011 (UTC)Reply
I don't really get what you're asking me to do or change? Calvin • NaNaNaC'mon! 16:00, 4 September 2011 (UTC)Reply
You began the sentence with The following day and then you add the date at the end of the sentence. This does not look good nor does it read well. Jivesh • Talk2Me 19:45, 4 September 2011 (UTC)Reply
Formats and track listing
Title should be Format and track listing Jivesh • Talk2Me 15:54, 4 September 2011 (UTC)Reply
Charts, certifications and precession
Radio and release history
  • No issues

Jivesh • Talk2Me 11:04, 3 September 2011 (UTC)Reply

References

  Doing... Jivesh • Talk2Me 11:04, 3 September 2011 (UTC)Reply

Sverigetopplistan,

MTV News,

Idolator (Correct the spelling),

About.com

and NBCshould not be italicized

  • Prefix Magazine should be italicized
    I didn't think we italicised publisher parameters?
Magazines are italicized. Should be in the work parameter for automatic italicization. Jivesh • Talk2Me 15:54, 4 September 2011 (UTC)Reply
I don't know who the publisher is though if this is mean't to be in the work parameter. Calvin • NaNaNaC'mon! 16:00, 4 September 2011 (UTC)Reply
It's Daily Mail Jivesh • Talk2Me 15:54, 4 September 2011 (UTC)Reply
Done Calvin • NaNaNaC'mon! 16:00, 4 September 2011 (UTC)Reply
  • Prometheus Global Media has been linked far too many times
    I can't help that the ones in the Charts, certifications and precession section are linked, it's how they have been pre-formatted. Like I said before, click edit on that section and you will see why. Calvin • NaNaNaC'mon! 15:31, 4 September 2011 (UTC)Reply

Jivesh • Talk2Me 05:12, 4 September 2011 (UTC)Reply

Thanks Jivesh, i have done everything now. Calvin • NaNaNaC'mon! 21:29, 4 September 2011 (UTC)Reply
You are most welcome Calvin and well done!!! Keep it up. And i hope you keep improving as this article really needed a lot of work. Jivesh • Talk2Me 04:58, 5 September 2011 (UTC)Reply

Quick Comments from Novice7

edit
  • The sample needs a better caption than "A sample of "Hard" featuring the chorus by Rihanna and Jeezy."
      Done Calvin • NaNaNaC'mon!
  • Rihanna spoke about when she first heard the song, saying "When I first heard the song..." – keep any one of the italicized part. Either the quote or the paraphrased one.
  • "I can’t talk about what happened, but it’s really good for me [laughs]. – necessary?
      Done Calvin • NaNaNaC'mon!
  • Can you add more information about the song's musical structure, lyrics etc.?
    I added a reviewers comment about the lyrics. Calvin • NaNaNaC'mon!
  • with many commenting on the collaboration between the two artists as well as Rihanna's vocal stylization. Monica Herrerra of Billboard praised the collaboration between Rihanna and Jeezy – check for redundant information.
    What do you mean? Calvin • NaNaNaC'mon!
"Praised the collab...", "commented on the collab" etc., they are the same thing repeated over. Novice7 (talk) 06:58, 10 September 2011 (UTC)Reply
  • Herrerra continued to conclude that although Rihanna – How can she continue to conclude? Conclusion means the end.
      Done Calvin • NaNaNaC'mon!
  • Greg Kot of The Chicago Tribune commented on the collaboration between the two artists and observed that Rihanna "lashes out" on the song, with "help from an even harder-edged MC, Young Jeezy." – check the italicized part.
    ? Calvin • NaNaNaC'mon!
  • Why is Pitchfork italicised?
      Done Calvin • NaNaNaC'mon!
  • The song became her thirteenth top-ten single and sixteenth top-twenty hit this decade – her → Rihanna.
      Done Calvin • NaNaNaC'mon!
  • "Hard" also peaked at number one on the US Hot Dance Club Songs chart on March 6, 2010,[17] as well as peaking at numbers nine and 14 on the US Pop Songs and Hot R&B/Hip-Hop Songs charts, respectively.[18] – In my opinion, "as well as peaking" breaks the flow here. You should stick to past tense as the sentence begins that way.
      Done Calvin • NaNaNaC'mon!
  • "Hard" has since been certified platinum by the Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA), denoting sales of over one million units.[19] – I think it's for Digital sales?
    It's still units sold though? Calvin • NaNaNaC'mon!
If it's digital, you need to note that. Novice7 (talk) 06:58, 10 September 2011 (UTC)Reply
  • around the world on the strength of downloads alone due to the release of the music video. – I can't find a connection here. I assume you're trying to say that the release of the music video increased the amount of digital downloads which, in turn, helped it chart?
    Yes Calvin • NaNaNaC'mon!
  • Chartstats is usually not preferred. Can you find a better source? Like Music Week or OCC website?
    No, because the UK Singles archive charts only displayed positions 1-40. Calvin • NaNaNaC'mon!
Okay. Novice7 (talk) 06:58, 10 September 2011 (UTC)Reply

I'll take a look at the article later. Novice7 (talk) 06:53, 2 September 2011 (UTC)Reply

Thanks. Calvin • NaNaNaC'mon! 15:40, 4 September 2011 (UTC)Reply
Second look
  • Ailbhe Malone of NME stated that although Rihanna's mentor, Jay-Z, was not involved in the production of Rated R, she noted that "his influence is tangible," as well as commenting that Rihanna adopts his vocal style in the lyric "Brilliant, resilient, fan mail from 27 million."[9] – rewrite. Tense issues are noted.
  • What does "pin-sharp beats" mean? I know what pin-sharp is, but pin-sharp beats?
      Done Calvin • NaNaNaC'mon!

Novice7 (talk) 06:58, 10 September 2011 (UTC)Reply

Can someone please just do a final assessment against the criteria please. It's come to a standstill. Calvin • NaNaNaC'mon! 17:25, 30 September 2011 (UTC) Reply

Status, Jivesh and Novice7 have to approve the keeping, as they are also reviewers. We don't typically have delegates in Individual GARs. —WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ] 18:40, 30 September 2011 (UTC)Reply
Yeahhhhh, but someone needs to close it. I can't do it, I nominated it. Calvin • NaNaNaC'mon! 20:01, 30 September 2011 (UTC)Reply
First, you have to ask for approval by the reviewers. Then we can close it per WP:SNOW. —WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ] 23:17, 30 September 2011 (UTC)Reply

Support being kept as a GA. Sorry I wasn't able to give my own feedback; tbh, I totally forgot about this. :L — Status {talkcontribs  00:23, 1 October 2011 (UTC)Reply

Closing as kept as there is unlikely to be more feedback and per WP:SNOW. All reviewers have approved this. —WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ] 11:25, 1 October 2011 (UTC)Reply

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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