Talk:Hardauna

History section

Just for the time being, I removed this section:

• ==History==

Hardauna's has many ancient values regarding to the Chaudhary community. The Chaudharys of this village are purbiha kurmi kshatriya who migrated from the many state of Gwalior of India during the era of monarchy. The Indian historian Basant More who was the first person who did Ph.D on chhatrapati shivaji Maharaj has proven that the Ror community of Haryana & Kurmi community of Nepal are the descendents of Chhatrapati Shivaji Maharaj who migrated to those region after the Maratha defeated in panipat war II.

@Historyvilla: It's a good start, but could we work on the expression a little, and, especially, sources for it, before it goes back on the page? It's very interesting, and I would be happy to help or discuss. Thanks 49.177.107.107 (talk) 12:00, 19 September 2021 (UTC)

Off course i will add the links and sites for it. I hope you will support Historyvilla (talk) 10:08, 21 September 2021 (UTC)

Appreciate your willingness to work on this, @Historyvilla. I don't think it's quite there yet, so I removed the paragraph again. I apologise, and hope this does not seem rude.

In my view, it needs two things, before going back:

1. A really good source (you might like to read WP:REFSTART and WP:RELIABLE); and 2. a re-write for clarity.

If you could point me in the direction of a published book or journal or really strong website, like a university's site, I would be happy to help with constructing the clearest expression possible, in an "encylopaedic tone".

Definitely do not think more unsourced material should go on the page while there are still statements that remain unreferenced from earlier edits. Thanks for your patience. 49.177.107.107 (talk) 13:12, 21 September 2021 (UTC)

Is there a way to convince editors here that it is not suitable to keep adding information that several different editors have removed more than once? And is really more suitable for caste pages, anyway? Without any sources! Why is it ok for @Kshatriya.History and, especially, @Historyvilla - who also calls people idiotic or is otherwise critical of them in edit summaries - to keep adding this stuff here, when there are so many other places with the information? We need more about the village. Caste make-up of the village would be wonderful for the page, but it needs to be from reliable sources that specifically relate to this village. Not just about the caste group generally, or in just in Nepal. Can you help with that? AukusRuckus (talk) 13:08, 26 September 2021 (UTC)

Sorry, @Historyvilla, that section was better this time, but the ref you cited does not mention Hardauna or even Kurmi at all, just Nepal:

"Peoples: There are 126 caste/ethnic groups reported in the census 2011. Chhetri is the largest caste/ethnic groups having 16.6% (4,398,053) of the total population followed by Brahman-Hill (12.2%; 3,226,903), Magar (7.1% ; 1,887,733), Tharu (6.6% ; 1,737,470), Tamang (5.8% ; 1,539,830), Newar (5% ; 1,321,933), Kami (4.8% ; 1,258,554), Musalman (4.4% ; 1,164,255), Yadav (4% ; 1,054,458) and Rai (2.3% ; 620,004).

Language(s): There are 123 languages spoken as mother tongue reported in census 2011. Nepali is spoken as mother tongue by 44.6 percent (11,826,953) of the total population followed by Maithili (11.7% 3,092,530), Bhojpuri (5.98%; 1,584,958), Tharu (5.77%; 1,529,875), Tamang (5.11%; 1,353,311), Newar (3.2%; 846,557), Bajjika (2.99%; 793,418), Magar (2.98%; 788,530), Doteli (2.97%; 787,827), Urdu (2.61%; 691,546)."

The other ref is to a Wikipedia page which we are not supposed to use as a reference.

The biggest concern I see is that when you add facts about the Kurmi to this article, it is no longer a page about Hardauna. To keep to the topic, you would need write about how the Kurmi Kunbi fit into the village, along with any other groups there. For example, if the Kurmi migrated from India, why did they stay in Hardauna? How does the level of Kurmi population in Hardauna compare to other villages or regions in Nepal? Things like that. There needs to be sources that talk about the facts directly - Hardauna, specifically, not just Nepal. I looked at the 2001 and 2011 Nepal census, but I cannot find caste figures by village or municipality, only by district - so those would be good as a source for Kapilvastu District page, but not Hardauna. Sorry.

Another concern is that it seems as if you think you should just keep on adding this back, even though several different editors have taken it out, and asked you to stop. We all need to try to reach agreement when there is a dispute about how a page is changed. Can you discuss a bit why you (apparently) feel so strongly that the Kurmi material should go into this page, please? I'd like to understand and assist if I can. Thanks. AukusRuckus (talk) 11:25, 27 September 2021 (UTC)

References

More of the same

@Historyvilla @202.51.88.148 @113.199.249.73 @113.199.250.47 @113.199.248.152 This par that you keep reinserting: Hardauna's has many ancient values regarding to the Chaudhary community. The Chaudharys of this village are purbiha kurmi kshatriya who migrated from the many state of [[Gwalior]] of India during the era of monarchy. The Indian historian Basant More who was the first person who did Ph.D on <nowiki>chhatrapati shivaji Maharaj has proven that the Ror community of Haryana & Kurmi community of Nepal are the descendents of Chhatrapati Shivaji Maharaj who migrated to those region after the Maratha defeated in panipat war II. is not suitable due to:

1. You keep using <nowiki> markup: Why? What do you intend by it? (it's not doing what you think it is doing, I would guess.)
2. No sources supplied. Please see WP:RS and WP:Verifiability
3. The points in the paragraph have little to do with Hardauna, directly. For example, Shivaji may well be of Kurmi origin , but why should he be on this page about Hardauna? Hardauna may have lots of Kurmi people in it, but - apart from not citing any refs to say that - you do not write about why that is an important or relevant point to do with Hardauna.
4. You talk abut the PhD thesis by historian Basant More "proving" that Haryana and Kurmi people are descendants of Shivaji ... Why is that important to this village?
5. All of these groups are mentioned, with zero context or explanation:

• Chaudhary
• Purbiha
• Kshatriya
• Ror
• Haryana
• Kurmi

This is all pointless, if it is not explained what all these groups are about. If you just name things, without saying anything about them ... it's just words, for those not in the know: To you or people familiar with social structure in this part of the world, maybe it seems obvious, but I assure you, it is meaningless to anyone with no prior knowledge. And that is who WP articles should be able to inform.

You need to stop adding this, unless you can justify why it should go into the article (and source it and improve style, grammar and expression, too). Honestly, wouldn't it be better to add meaningful information to WP articles - this one, or others? I for one would love some real information about what Hardauna is really like ... AukusRuckus (talk) 13:57, 14 October 2021 (UTC)