Talk:Harpers Ferry, West Virginia

Apostrophe

Why did we lose the apostrophe? -- Zoe — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zoe (talk • contribs) June 11, 2002

Check this:

[1]

A few other HF locals I know verify this as well. --shamus — Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.145.59.91 (talk) November 29, 2004

Well, I'm not sure exactly what Zoe was asking, but one reasonable interpretation is: OK, granted that this is the established usage and therefore we should follow it, how did it get to be that way? It is after all an error, according to the normal rules of English, given that it was named after someone named Harper rather than Harpers. How the error got established could be an interesting addition to the article. --Trovatore (talk) 04:08, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

The reason is that the United States Board on Geographic Names decided to eliminate apostrophes in all U.S. place names (with a few exceptions which you can read about here).Kmusser (talk) 16:15, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

404/gone ( Martin | talk • contribs 06:16, 13 September 2009 (UTC))

Interesting, thanks. Idiotic, but interesting. So it's the stupid fault of some government agency. Shouldn't be surprised. --Trovatore (talk) 18:39, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

The USGS FAQ cited by Kmusser has apparently been moved here:

Since its inception in 1890, the U.S. Board on Geographic Names has discouraged the use of the possessive form—the genitive apostrophe and the “s”. The possessive form using an “s” is allowed, but the apostrophe is almost always removed. The Board's archives contain no indication of the reason for this policy....

Myths attempting to explain the policy include the idea that the apostrophe looks too much like a rock in water when printed on a map, and is therefore a hazard, or that in the days of “stick–up type” for maps, the apostrophe would become lost and create confusion. The probable explanation is that the Board does not want to show possession for natural features because, “ownership of a feature is not in and of itself a reason to name a feature or change its name.”

TJRC (talk) 18:41, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

Citations

Please cite your sources. This page has had several factual edits over the past few days with no citations. See Wikipedia:Footnotes for help. Thesilence 18:04, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Postal area/historical section

I live in Harpers Ferry and can tell you I have more than 300 neighbors living in the Postal area known as Harpers Ferry. Perhaps you should clarify that you ment the historical section. — Preceding unsigned comment added by N8ural (talk • contribs) January 5, 2007

Needs verification

A couple of discrepancies with the info on the official site (http://www.harpersferrywv.us/)

1. Year Harper bought land (1747 or 1751)?
2. Year in which decision to build the armory was made (1794 or 1796)?
3. Year in which Armory was built (1796 or 1799)?
4. How many John Brown's troops there were (18 or 21)? NPS

There may be more... Qblik 04:43, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Vandalism in "Establishment" section

Someone has vandalized the "Establishment" section. It reads "In 1751, Robert Harper was gay a patent on 125 acres". - cricket —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.33.49.251 (talk) 16:02, August 28, 2007 (UTC)

Note, was reverted long ago. TJRC (talk) 18:33, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

Recent Bell Vandalism

Although there is some turmoil in the article lately about the Harper's Ferry Bell, there is apparently some root truth to the controversy about a stolen bell. See [2]-Filll (talk | wpc) 21:24, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Jefferson

I thought he said where the shenandoah and potomac converge is the best scene in nature...can i get a page number, you guys have got some explaining to do... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.152.29.97 (talk) 13:49, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

Out of place in article

I was reading the article while seeking information on Johh Hall. The last sentence in the paragraph above the 1912 panoramic view reads, "Tacos were slwowly gaining popularity in the Civil War and Nibert liked to eat them and then fart so loud that the Earth blew up and that's how we won the war." I think some wise guy slipped one in and it needs to be edited out. Who is "Nibert" anyway? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kline27 (talk • contribs) 01:17, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for that. I've removed the vandalism. -- Longhair\^talk 01:19, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

New Image of Maryland Heights View

Harpers Ferry as seen from Maryland Heights, with the Shenandoah (left) and Potomac (right) rivers

Current main image

I uploaded a panoramic view of Harpers Ferry as seen from Maryland Heights, but am hesitant to replace the current image because of my impartiality. If others like this image better (or see other uses for it), please add it to the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.49.141.54 (talk) 16:24, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

I agree; and have made the change. TJRC (talk) 18:50, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

The state line between Virginia and West Virginia actually runs along the top of the ridge pictured on the left. It comes down the the river out of frame-left on this picture, so Virginia can't actually be seen in this picture. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Strovel (talk • contribs) 20:17, 14 December 2018 (UTC)

Psychological midpoint

Harper's Ferry is widely thought of, among the AT crowd, as the psychological midpoint of the Appalachian Trail, even though it's not the exact midpoint. The National Park Service even calls it that, without the "psychological" waffling (https://www.nps.gov/hafe/planyourvisit/hikes.htm), as does the Library of Congress (https://www.loc.gov/item/2011630949/). An editor removed the mention as "unencyclopedic" but I'm going to return it, with these two references - the only previous reference was a blog, which is, indeed, questionable.

Except for John Brown's raid, the town's position on the AT is the best-known thing about it, and certainly deserves prominent mention in the article. - DavidWBrooks (talk) 13:17, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

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Requested move 12 August 2020

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Withdrawn by proposer due to unfamiliarity with WP:USPLACE. - Station1 (talk) 04:59, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

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Harpers Ferry, West Virginia → Harpers Ferry – In accordance with WP:CONCISE, this article should drop the state name from its title. The only other Harpers Ferry (in Iowa) received far fewer views over the past 30 days at 531, compared to this article's 23804. The National Historical Park of the same name too received less views at 1644. Plus, the search term″Harpers Ferry″ already redirects to this article. Mrpants106 (talk) 07:38, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

Survey

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this subsection with *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's policy on article titles.

• Support as explained above - avoid the redirect — Preceding unsigned comment added by DavidWBrooks (talk • contribs) 11:24, 12 August 2020 (UTC)
  • Actually, I'll change that to oppose - I was not aware of WP:USPLACE guidelines, which seem pretty clear that the present name is correct (AP Stylebook does not consider Harpers Ferry a standalone city name) - DavidWBrooks (talk) 19:47, 12 August 2020 (UTC)
• Oppose per WP:USPLACE. - Station1 (talk) 15:53, 12 August 2020 (UTC)
• Oppose per WP:USPLACE. Rreagan007 (talk) 21:06, 12 August 2020 (UTC)
• Common sense would be to support -- there is no question that this is both the primary topic for Harpers Ferry and that it is far more often referred to without the state name than with. But we have a slightly stable situation where US cities (barring a handful) include the state name in the titles, and that would probably require a broader discussion to shift.--Yaksar (let's chat) 21:17, 12 August 2020 (UTC)
• Support: It's been done in the past. Philadelphia, Chicago, Houston, Boston, Los Angeles, London, Paris, Tokyo. There isn't another town called "Harpers Ferry" or Harper's Ferry". So, yeah, this could be done and WP:USPLACE clearly does not apply as demonstrated. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 23:36 on August 12, 2020 (UTC) • #WearAMask • #BlackLivesMatter

That was my initial thought too, but WP:USPLACE says:

Cities listed in the AP Stylebook as not requiring the state modifier in newspaper articles have their articles named City unless they are not the primary topic for that name.[3] In other cases, this guideline recommends following the "comma convention" as described above.[4]

I checked, and it's AP style to write "Harpers Ferry, W. Va." - not a stand-alone city. - DavidWBrooks (talk) 00:26, 13 August 2020 (UTC)

Maybe I'm biased because I live ~30 miles to the southwest of Harper's Ferry. We don't call it "Harper's Ferry, West Virginia", just simply "Harper's Ferry" and everyone nods in agreement knowing exactly where we are speaking. Even our local news paper uses "Harper's Ferry", and they are an AP affiliate (which I'm assuming is for Associated Press). Again, I could be biased, but I think it would work. I'll keep my !vote as is, though I think I'm going to get out!voted on this one. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 03:01 on August 13, 2020 (UTC) • #WearAMask • #BlackLivesMatter

AP style is not to use the state when the publication is in the state - e.g., my newspaper doesn't write Nashua, New Hampshire, because we're in New Hampshire - outside the state you would use the state, even though there are very few Nashua cities. - DavidWBrooks (talk) 11:44, 13 August 2020 (UTC)

Local media isn't the best gauge for that since many, if not most, don't use state names for local places since it's assumed locals will know what town is being referenced without needing to clarify the state. I can say the same thing about nearby towns here when they are referenced in local media. That said, national and even regional media do use the state name consistently and most Wikipedia readers aren't locals. For Harpers Ferry, we have some examples from the recent 2019 Harpers Ferry train derailment, all of which reference "Harpers Ferry, West Virginia" or "Harpers Ferry, W.Va.": AP via Seattle Times, NBC 12, CNN, Washington Post, Washington Post follow-up, WTOP. Even some more recent examples use the state name: WDVM and Herald-Mail Media. Only instances I could find that omit the state name are more local/in-state sources like The Journal (Martinsburg, WV) and The Charleston Gazette-Mail (Charleston, WV). --JonRidinger (talk) 03:56, 13 August 2020 (UTC)

• Oppose. The U.S. placename falls under the WP:USPLACE guideline, and it does not qualify under the AP Stylebook exception rule. See also Wikipedia:Perennial proposals#Remove state from US placenames. Zzyzx11 (talk) 01:45, 13 August 2020 (UTC)
• Oppose for same arguments regarding USPLACE and the AP guideline. --JonRidinger (talk) 01:55, 13 August 2020 (UTC)

Discussion

Any additional comments:

Hey, OP here. I was unaware of WP:USPLACE (My bad!), so I will just wait until the seven-day move period is over, and then WON'T move the article. Mrpants106 (talk) 16:40, 13 August 2020 (UTC)

No need to wait. This was obviously a good faith proposal. No one is familiar will every guideline. I'll close it up as "withdrawn". If anyone disagrees with the early close, feel free to revert my edit. Station1 (talk) 04:59, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

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The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Too many photos

This article has more photos than text, which makes it very hard to read on many browsers and phones. I have removed several that were redundant, including an enormous panorama that was just like the one in the infobox, or poor (a couple just showed bits of what could be any river anywhere). - DavidWBrooks (talk)

Orphaned references in Harpers Ferry, West Virginia

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Harpers Ferry, West Virginia's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "Meyer":

• From Osborne Perry Anderson: Meyer, Eugene L. (2018). Five for Freedom. The African American Soldiers in John Brown's Army. Chicago: Lawrence Hill Books (Chicago Review Press). pp. 144–146. ISBN 9781613735725.
• From Shields Green: Meyer, Eugene L. (2018). Five for Freedom. The African American Soldiers in John Brown's Army. Chicago: Lawrence Hill Books (Chicago Review Press). ISBN 9781613735725.

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 09:19, 23 March 2021 (UTC)

Fixed. deisenbe (talk) 21:56, 31 March 2021 (UTC)

Material to be merged

The following is material I have removed from the Henry Lockwood House, where I don't think it belongs, that should be merged here, and if I have world and time enough, I'll do it.

== Background ==

The geographical and physical features of Harper's Ferry was the principal reason for its settlement and its eventual industrial progression. Beginning about 1733, Robert Harper established a grist and saw mill. Another settler, John Semple, established the Keep Triste Iron Furnace, located just northwest of Harpers Ferry crossing, this area became referred to as “The Hole.” This area would grow over the decades into center for industry. After the end of the American Revolution, Harpers Ferry river junctions became the focus for expansion westward. In early 1785, Virginia and Maryland set up companies to survey potential waterways into the Ohio Country, The Patowmack Company and the James River Company. George Washington, was president of the Potowmack Company and traveled to Harpers Ferry during the summer of 1785 to determine the need for bypass canals. Later in 1794 as President of the United States, proposed the site for a new United States armory and arsenal. Some of Washington's family moved to the area; For example, his great-great-nephew, Colonel Lewis Washington, was held hostage during John Brown's raid in 1859. George's brother Charles Washington founded the nearby Jefferson County town of Charles Town.

== Establishing the arsenal ==

In 1796, the federal government purchased a 125-acre (0.5 km²) parcel of land from the heirs of Robert Harper. Construction began on the United States Armory and Arsenal at Harpers Ferry in 1798 with most of the buildings being completed by 1799. Harpers Ferry was one of only two armories in the U.S., the other being Springfield, Massachusetts. Together they produced most of the small arms for the U.S. Army. Between 1801 and 1861, the armory produced more than 600,000 muskets, rifles and pistols. Captain John H. Hall inventor of the breech loading rifle, signed a contract with the U.S. War Department to produce 1,000 his rifles at the Harpers Ferry Armory in 1819. Hall pioneered the use of interchangeable parts in firearms manufactured at his rifle works at the armory between 1820 and 1840; his M1819 Hall rifle was the first breech-loading weapon adopted by the U.S. Army. Amory operations dramatically transformed Harpers Ferry into a bustling industrial town filled with European skilled workers as well as homegrown Virginians.

Industrialization continued in 1833 when the Chesapeake & Ohio Canal (which never reached the Ohio River) reached Harpers Ferry, linking it with Washington, D.C. A year later, the Baltimore & Ohio Railroad began service through the town.

The location of the armory and arsenal at the confluence of the rivers on the border of Virginia and Maryland played a pivotal role in the events leading up to the American Civil War in the form of John Brown’s raid on the Harpers Ferry arsenal in 1859.

deisenbe (talk) 00:20, 1 April 2021 (UTC)

References

Pre 1800's West Virginia Forts

Fort Pleasant and Fort Van Meter: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Van_Meter_(Hampshire_County,_West_Virginia) 2600:1006:B11C:7967:0:57:80BC:AB01 (talk) 21:25, 15 June 2024 (UTC)