Talk:Harvard (automobile)

Needs fact verification

I'm not finding anything about a "Harvard Car Company", other than entries in some lists of car companies. The Herreshoff (automobile) was real; I found a picture and put it in that article. The "Adirondack Motor Car Company" existed, but I found three references to Grenville Ingalsby, not Nay, as the president.[1] [2][3] There was a "Northrup R. Holmes" in the area, a trolley magnate, but I'm not finding any connection between him and automobiles. Anyone actually have the reference work cited? --John Nagle (talk) 07:27, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Never heard of the reference work cited. But I found a reference in The complete encyclopaedia of Motor cars 1885 - 1968 (tho later versions exist) edited by G N Georgano. It includes the statements "The Harvard car, powered by a 4 cylinder Model engine [I wonder if he meant to write Model T?], appeared only as an open two seater. All Harvards were made with right hand drive, built for export to New Zealand. They featured a hidden compartment for the spare wheel at the bottom of the rear deck."

So if the whole thing is an obscure hoax, it's one that has been going on quite a long time. And the best place to try and find one would presumably be with an enthusiast or museum in New Zealand. Good luck. Regards Charles01 (talk) 08:10, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

A very similar entry appears in the later edition of Georgano (the 3 volume one). Model was the name of an engine manufacturer so the entry is almost certainly correct. he adds that from 1913 Sterling engines were used - I am guessing agian that this is a make and not a Sterling as in hot air engine. Malcolma (talk) 16:29, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

In order of the issues raised:

• About the Adirondack Motor Car Company, my initial reaction is that with such a name, the Ingalsby and Nay companies may quite possibly be two different companies, though they certainly could be the same. To quote the book, "...Nay, a lawyer in nearby Hudson Falls who also operated a dealership for Overland, Saxon, Cole, and Mitchell cars. Nay's facilities were more extensive than Holmes', and so assembly of the Harvard now moved to Nay's Adirondack Motor Car Company."

• About Northrup R. Holmes, it says he was a young Troy attorney who owned the Herreshoff Light Car Company in Troy, which was the agency for the Herreshoff cars.

• About the book, it is out of print and is quite pricey to purchase used (in the $200 - $400 range). It is available at libraries, which is where I got the copy I am using. I highly recommend the book, its mind-blowing in its comprehensiveness, it has every pre-War US car you have heard of and even some you haven't (which apparently includes the Harvard). :) About 1600 pages of data and statistics. To find which libraries near you have it, check [4].

• About Model, that was the name of an engine manufacturer (in the vein of Lycoming or Continental) in Auburn (or Peru), Indiana. They also made the Model and then the Star automobiles in the same towns.

• About New Zealand, I got the impression that the plan was to export them to NZ, but few, if any, actually were.

I don't think this company is a hoax, there are numerous such shams listed in the Kimes book, usually with much less detail listed than for this entry. If the authors think that no cars were made by a particular company, they have no qualms saying so. It was also prominent enough for Colvin to list it in his list of 1917 autos, see Brass Era car.--SimonX (talk) 05:06, 14 June 2008 (UTC)