Talk:Harvard Board of Overseers

Merge re Harvard governance

I'm guessing that the articles on the President and Fellows, on the Overseers, and on the President, might be usefully combined into a single article on Governance of Harvard University, since the three subjects are so closely intertwined and an understanding of any of them, beyond a very superficial one, demands disucssion of its relationship to the other two. But I lack the understanding to embark on this myself. EEng (talk) 17:54, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

That sounds like a sensible suggestion. I will look into it. Thanks. Safehaven86 (talk) 19:18, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

I'm skeptical. Each of the articles at present is headed by the name of something that exists in the real world; if we merged them we'd have to give the article a name we made up just for the Wikipedia. And since the President and Fellows of Harvard College are the oldest corporation in the Americas, they certainly seem to deserve an article in their own right. Doops | talk 19:06, 25 December 2012 (UTC)

Nonsense. Giving an article to every entity that "deserves" one doesn't trump what best serves the reader's understanding. Anyway, Harvard itself seems to think there's such a thing as "Governance of Harvard University" -- see http://www.harvard.edu/harvard-governance. Appropriate redirects would be created, of course. (BTW, President and Fellows of Harvard College is not plural but singular, so back to Expos with you!) EEng (talk) 09:08, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

Removing unsourced information

The statements in the article lede to the effect that "it is unclear what precisely [the board's] power of consent entails," "the Harvard Board of Overseers has no legal managerial control", and "the Board of Overseers is sometimes referred to as the 'senior' governing board" are not corroborated by any of the sources cited, and appear to be WP:OR. I'm removing them for that reason. AJD (talk) 20:49, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

• Agreed. EEng 20:55, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
• What legal managerial control do they have?

What power of consent do they have?

The answer, if you look at the documents, is none. Jjazz76 (talk) 21:20, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

Okay, which documents state that they have no managerial control or power of consent? AJD (talk) 21:32, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

what document states they have any managerial control or power of consent? Jjazz76 (talk) 21:43, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

The document currently cited as source #1 says the board has the power of consent. It would be better to have a non-primary source, of course. AJD (talk) 22:36, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

But what does "power of consent" mean? That seems to be a phrase that is trying to say something without saying something. Agreed it would be better to have non-primary sources. Does that mean that they must approve the decisions? Again it just seems so vague to lack any encyclopedic value. Jjazz76 (talk) 01:57, 25 May 2024 (UTC)

Maybe so! But certainly "what this means is unclear" is either a statement of opinion or original research, not something that reliable primary or secondary sources have been found saying about it. AJD (talk) 03:38, 25 May 2024 (UTC)

That's fair. I still think this article needs a lot of work. One is left really scratching one's head after reading it if the Harvard Board of Overseers have any power whatsoever. That's what I come to an encyclopedia article for, to answer questions, and I'm left with a lot more questions than answers. Jjazz76 (talk) 18:33, 25 May 2024 (UTC)

this article, as it stands, is still a bunch of PUFFERY about an group of alumni that as far as I can tell doesn't actually do anything.

Why should this article even exist? Like what exactly do they do? I can't find any sources to really support them doing much of anything. Jjazz76 (talk) 21:44, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

Articles don't state what you couldn't find. EEng 22:01, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

Boilerplate Quote Should be Removed

Right now we have a primary source quote that describes the functions of the Harvard Board of Overseers, but leaves a huge number of questions: "[T]he Board exerts broad influence over the University’s strategic directions, provides counsel to the University leadership on priorities and plans, and has the power of consent to certain actions of the Corporation. The Board’s chief functions include superintendence of the visitation process, the principal mechanism for periodic external review of the quality and direction of the University’s schools, departments, and selected other programs and activities. The Board carries out this responsibility largely through the operation of more than fifty visiting committees, whose work is overseen by and reported to the Board."

How does it exert this broad influence? With speeches? memos?

Does provide counsel mean something different than exerting broad influence? If so, what is that difference?

They also have "power of consent" - Again what does this mean exactly?

They also have "superintendence of the visitation process" - Ok what is that?

This reads like an ad for the Harvard Board of Overseers from the Harvard Board of Overseers, is not NPOV, and is unencyclopedic. It should be removed. Jjazz76 (talk) 02:01, 25 May 2024 (UTC)

• How does it exert this broad influence? With speeches? memos? – I don't know. If you think the article should supply that information, you could research the question.
• Does provide counsel mean something different than exerting broad influence? If so, what is that difference? – You could look up counsel and influence in the dictionary, and then you'd know the difference.
• They also have "power of consent" - Again what does this mean exactly? – The source says the Overseers have the "power of consent to certain actions of the Corporation". What this means exactly is that the Overseers have the power of consent to certain actions of the Corporation. What those actions are, exactly, isn't specified; if you think the article should supply that information, you could research the question.
• They also have "superintendence of the visitation process" - Ok what is that? – If you don't know what visitation means in an education context, make an effort to educate yourself (e.g. by reading [1]). Then you'll know.

EEng 09:12, 25 May 2024 (UTC)