Talk:Haute cuisine

the term in English

just to check... Do you really say "haute cuisine" in english ? Because we do say "grande cuisine" in french not "haute" ? fr0069

Yes, I see "haute", though "grande" appears as well, less often in my reading. UninvitedCompany 00:15, 4 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Canada

Is it me or does that last sentence in the Canada section not make any sense at all? I'd fix it, if I could figure out what the intended meaning was --Lenehey 00:06, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

I don't think anything in that section made any sense at all; I removed the lot. Blorg 21:37, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

I don't think this article is accurate. As best I can tell haute cuisine or grande cuisine is simply that practiced formerly in the great hotels of Europe and now in great restaurants worldwide. It is the sort of thing exemplified by the Michelin guide. This can include nouvelle cuisine, "California cuisine", postmodern cuisine... Perhaps it has also been used to describe the style of Carême, but the cuisine of Escoffier is properly called cuisine classique which stands for the canon of French standards that Escoffier systematized. Also, as far as I can tell, it has nothing to do with huge amounts of butter, which is a hallmark of nouvelle cuisine, one of the central tenets of which was to get rid, or minimize the use of flour-thickened sauces.

It may also be that it is used to define the particular style of service, but I always thought that was called service à la Russe, in which an elaborate system of waiters and kitchen staff rapidly plated and presented hot food in multiple courses, rather than leaving it to grow cold on the table banquet-style (called service à la Française). –Joke 18:20, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

I do not think that it is right to define the Haute Cuisine as it is in this article. Surely, I do not beleive that one can state that French Haute Cuisine was popular until the seventies, when the nouvelle cuisine was gaining ground. My preffered interpretation of the different cuisines is that the Haute Cuisine can best be described as the french-service styled banquet cooking, which was very common in the houses of French aristocracy before the Revolution. A significant differentation can be witnessed since 1789, expressed through the work of Brillat-Savarin, Carême and Grimod de la Reynière. This different style of cooking, which seems to be the defenition of HC in this article can better be described as classical cuisine, which in it's turn is depopularized by the upcomming 'nouvelle cuisine' during the seventies. Another option is to say that the nouvelle cuisine from the 1970's can be defined as modern or even postmodern cuisine. The distinction between the 3 historical periodds is not expressed very well in this article, in my opinion. Especially from a sociological point of view, there are some arguments to see it the 3-period way. For more information, I would suggest:

Hegarty, J.A. & G Barry O’Mahony (2001): Gastronomy: a phenomenon of cultural expressionism and an aesthetic for living. International journal of hospitality management. p3-13

       Mennell, S (1996): All manners of food: Eating and taste in England and France from the Middle Ages to the present. Chicago: Illinois University Press. 2nd Edition

       Parkhurst Ferguson, P (1998): A Cultural Field in the Making: Gastronomy in 19th-Century France. American journal of sociology, Vol 104 Iss 3. p 597-641

       Pitte, J (2002a): French Gastronomy: the history and goegraphy of a passion. New York: Columbia University Press

       Rao, H, P Monin & R Durand (2003):Institutional Change in Toque Ville: Nouvelle Cuisine as an Identity Movement in French Gastronomy. American journal of sociology, Vol 108 Iss 4. p795-744

Santich, B (2004): The study of gastronomy and its relevance to hospitality education and training. International journey of hospitality management, Vol 23 Iss 1. p 15-24

Trubek, A (2001): Haute Cuisine: How the French Invented the Culinary Profession. Philadelphia: University of Pennsylvania Press

Comment above may be more accurate than the article...

"Haute Cuisine can best be described as the french-service styled banquet cooking, which was very common in the houses of French aristocracy before the Revolution. A significant differentation can be witnessed since 1789, expressed through the work of Brillat-Savarin, Carême and Grimod de la Reynière." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.98.115.28 (talk) 05:06, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

I added some references in the same direction, actually the French article is written in the same direction.

POV

This entire "Stub" reads of point-of-view and is sorely in need of a complete rewrite and then expansion. If one were to read French cuisine much of the information needed for this article could be found there in the national cuisine history section. Books for reference for this article would specifically be best aimed at Trubek's Haute Cuisine and Mennel's All Manner of Food. If no one else gets to this anytime soon, I may work on the article in the next couple of weeks when I have time.--Chef Christopher Allen Tanner, CCC 06:14, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

As a side note, the term Nouvelle Cuisine is insignificant, the term has been used since the Middle Ages to describe different emerging cuisine trends throughout the centuries. In fact Tallievent's cuisine was referred to as Nouvelle cuisine as was La Varenne's, Marie-Antoine Careme's and even Escoffier's. We only recall Paul Bocuse's cuisine as Nouvelle cuisine because it is recent history. Again, like I said if no one else gets to this article soon, I will.--Chef Christopher Allen Tanner, CCC 06:18, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

So Many Cuisines; So Little Time

Okay, this entire article is in need of a complete redux. There are STRONG differences between Nouvelle Cuisine and Haute / Grande Cuisine. And there is some marked difference between the Haute Cuisine and Cuisine Classique.

As for Nouvelle Cuisine not being a very large term, in talking about trends in the culinary world, there is a VERY REAL use for the term--largely to give name to the trend in France that basically rewrote French cuisine and (possibly more importantly) gave rise to the New American Cuisine that has shaped the timbre of the culinary world for the past three decades. The term may have a variable use in history, but currently, and until we have a better name for the movement (or a better perspective on the last fifty years in the world of cooking), Nouvelle Cuisine has taken a VERY SPECIFIC place in the literature of the times. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.35.207.191 (talk) 06:14, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

Historical term

Yeah I think as somebody already mentioned above, haute cuisine has a significant historical meaning and isn't a term that is properly applied to contemporary cuisine.

If so (and I'm not completely certain without checking), then this article is mostly misinformation.

Calamitybrook (talk) 22:50, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

In the literature that I've read on medieval and early modern European cuisine haute cuisine is used simply as a term for refined cooking. I'm assuming that there's an etymological connection haute couture. Considering that medieval and modern-day French cooking have almost nothing in common, I get the feeling that this just a fancier synonym to "fine cooking". Unless someone produces reliable sources with a reasonably narrow, this seems ripe for deletion.

Peter ^Isotalo 04:33, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Peter I don't understand. What is "ripe for deletion?"

If my Larouse" copy was available to me, I could check index and cite the thing. Are you saying perhaps that the term has evolved and has contemporary meaning that is independent of its original meaning? This seems entirely plausible. But if so, there may be differences in definition that ought to be explained.

Calamitybrook (talk) 06:01, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

I dunno, my grandmother used to think ketchup was spaghetti sauce. Is that "Italian Food?" I guess it is. So maybe Haute Cuisine is any expensive French restaurant food.

Somehow, I think there is more to it.

Calamitybrook (talk) 18:01, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

I'm talking about this article being ripe for deletion unless someone tries defines the topic properly. The description "fine food commonly, but not necessarily, associated with France" is too vague to base an article on. That it lacks any proper referencing doesn't help either.

Peter ^Isotalo 10:59, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

I quite disagree that the article is "ripe for deletion" although it may have inadequacies currently.

The sentence you've quoted does sound a bit dubious. Maybe I'll remove it and do a tiny bit of editing, but over all, the article concerns a notable topic, and does at least take a stab at a serious treatment.

After reading a bit, am thinking a "definitive" definition of HC may not really exist, that is, in the sense that noodles with ketchup is indeed, "Italian food".....sort of.......

As somebody noted above, all the information and references needed for minimal improvement can be lifted from existing Wikipedia articles on related topics. I'm not likely to do much though, and I'd prefer to see/read a really good article on this topic.

Calamitybrook (talk) 16:25, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Okay I messed with it a little.

I merely cribbed from the French cuisine article, which may not be an ideal method, but, I don't much care.

It's merely a stub that can be worked on further by those with enough interest.

Calamitybrook (talk) 17:14, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

From Italy

Since this article is, and should be, about the historical cuisine that the French aristocracy adopted as their own at the beginning of the Renaissance, it might be a good idea for someone to mention the chefs who left the employ of the House of Medici and became employed at the court of the French King. They were extremely influential in the creation of Haute Cuisine. 76.28.103.69 (talk) 00:31, 8 November 2009 (UTC)Will in New Haven76.28.103.69 (talk) 00:31, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

Date

When was this website published? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.223.138.95 (talk) 19:56, 22 May 2017 (UTC)

Fancy food listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Fancy food. Please participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so. _signed, Rosguill ^talk 17:55, 19 July 2019 (UTC)