Talk:Head Crusher

Genre

What seems to be the trouble in here? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jcl6543 (talk • contribs) 21:18, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

So, Never Walk Alone is thrash metal but this is not? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Never_Walk_Alone..._A_Call_to_Arms

This is a thrash metal song. It has all its characteristics: Fast, palm-muted open-E riffing, fast drumming, violent/graphic lyrics, aggressive, monotonous vocals. Obviously Wikipedia's reputation of being an untrustworthy platform is fully deserved, seeing the incompetence demonstrated by the staff here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.71.86.124 (talk) 03:25, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

• I don't know how any anyone can think this is heavy metal. Conservoman, maybe YOU are the one who needs to stop "vandalizing with their opinion." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.67.35.38 (talk) 02:33, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

I'm also adding heavy metal.Conservoman (talk) 14:01, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

• • Before adding thrash metal, source it. Random IPs keep adding thrash metal and it is not sourced. The song is definitely more heavy metal than thrash so it should be noted. Until we get a good source, I suggest sticking to heavy/thrash.Conservoman (talk) 08:36, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
• bullshit. this is a solid thrash song. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.187.249.25 (talk) 09:59, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
• Do you know what is original research? No? We add sourced information on wikipedia, not our opinion. I'm reverting this thrash metal to heavy metal. Also, it's nowhere close to thrash metal. It's slow, if that's not the case, the drumming is also simple heavy metal drumming, not thrash beats. Conservoman (talk) 08:22, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
• Do you even realize what you're saying? ITS YOUR OPINION that its heavy metal. You are being a hell of a hypocrite. According to Megadeth's myspace page, they are currently a "Thrash / Metal" band. So we can assume their newest material is Thrash until we can find a source that says its heavy metal. I am Changing it back.~Rattleglans 04:47, 27 August 2009 (UTC)
• Do you have some sort of machine that tells you what genre it is? Eventually Dave will tell us. so until then don't make thse kind of judgements until certainty is sure. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Maximum927 (talk • contribs) 02:23, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

There was more IP trolling this evening but it has been reverted. GripTheHusk (talk) 03:07, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

If For Whom The Bells Tolls is listed as Thrash, Head Crusher should be listed as Thrash too. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.2.30.48 (talk) 04:48, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

No offence, but are you idiots? If Dave says that the song is thrash, it means it is? Lulz? My opinion? No, the song is nowhere close to thrash. Now read this, you random ips: NO SOURCE, NO GO in wikipedia. If you get a source that claims it is thrash, it's good, but the source must be reliable. Also, Wwikipedia is not about original research, so read all the WP pages before talking bullshit.Conservoman (talk) 07:06, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

Where's your source that is heavy metal? If you say it is heavy metal does it mean it is heavy metal? Megadeth is a thrash metal band, and this album is one of their heaviest in years. It seems you are outnumbered here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 159.242.213.108 (talk) 14:17, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

Conservoman, what kind of source are you looking for? If God came down from Heaven and tell us, would that be enough? Your stubborness is making accurate discussion and classification unbearable and impossible. Please find your own source the defends your 'Heavy Metal' opinion, or you have no credible argument. If Dave himself said that the song was Thrash but you don't accept that, your attitude towards art must change. Maximum927 (talk) 00:11, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

The article should just remain as the parent heavy metal. Using that term is not incorrect because all thrash songs (and this song is not a thrash song) are also heavy metal songs by default. Labelling an artist, album or song as heavy metal covers off every single split or sub-genre of the style. Megadeth has not really been a thrash metal band since the late 1980s. And this track is a testament to that. Wether B (talk) 00:23, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

I have extended the note in the infobox but it will undoubtedly be ignored by the IP vandal and his sockpuppet accounts. The page will have to be locked down again until the vandal frenzy surrounding the release of the new album dies down and the genre field will be left to just stay at its most accurate heavy metal description. Aussie Ausborn (talk) 21:11, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

Conservoman, you are the one vandalizing this page

I don't understand how you could be so obtuse, Conservoman. You are being a class A, hypocrite. According to the band's myspace, they are a THRASH METAL band. This is their newest single, so we can definately assume that their current genre, according to the band, is going to match the genre of their single. It is your opinion that the song is HEAVY METAL. This is definitely thrash metal... heres the definition of "thrash metal" according to this piece of shit website, which up till now i had no problems with.

Thrash metal is a subgenre of heavy metal that is characterized by its fast tempo and aggression. 
Thrash metal songs typically use fast, percussive and low-register guitar riffs, overlaid with shredding-style lead work.
Thrash metal lyrics often deal with social issues using direct and denunciatory language, an approach which partially overlaps with the hardcore genre.
The "Big Four" bands of thrash metal are Anthrax, Megadeth, Metallica and Slayer, who simultaneously created and popularized the genre in the early 1980s.

1. If you can't hear a fast tempo in this song, you need to get your ears checked. 2. This is exactly what this song is. Low, fast rythym and shredding lead guitar. 3. This is a "typically". You cannot use this against this song... especially because the lyrics don't make the genre... and if you think otherwise, you are a real dumbass. 4. Megadeth's name is obviously mentioned here.

So until you rewrite the thrash page, get the hell out of this one. I am reverting it. so stop vandalizing this page with your nonsense.

Enough being nice. YOU ARE THE IDIOT HERE. IF A BAND SAYS THAT THEY ARE THRASH METAL, DOES IT AUTOMATICALLY MAKE THEM THRASH? HAVE YOU EVER READ THE WIKIPEDIA RULES? NO? SO WHY THE HELL ARE YOU MAKING THESE DUMB REMARKS? HEAVY METAL IS THE MAJOR GENRE, THRASH IS SUBGENRE. THIS SONG CONTAINS NO THRASH METAL, I'VE BEEN LISTENING TO MEGADETH AND THRASH METAL ALL MY LIFE AND I CAN TELL THRASH FROM A DIFFERENT KIND OF METAL. NOT THAT WIKIPEDIA GIVES A SHIT ABOUT MY OPINION. THERE ARE LOADS OF REGISTERED PEOPLE HERE WHO ARE REVERTING YOUR THRASH METAL ELITISM BULLSHIT, ONLY RANDOM IPS ARE CONTINUOSLY CHANGING IT TO THRASH NOW YOU'RE SAYING "According to the band's myspace, they are a THRASH METAL band". MYSPACE IS NOT A RELIABLE SOURCE. SO DO YOU ALSO THINK THAT RISK AND CRYPTIC WRITINGS, YOUTHANASIA ARE THRASH METAL BECAUSE MEGADETH SAID SO? NOW THE BONUS SONG IN THE WORLD NEEDS A HERO, COMING HOME, IS ALSO THRASH? IDIOTIC REMARKS. Conservoman (talk) 19:35, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

Conservoman, you really have NO idea what you are talking about. This song is a thrash metal song. YOUR opinion is that it is a heavy metal song, where is your source buddy? Please give up and just leave, you are incorrect in labeling this song as heavy metal.

He does not need to provide a source. There is an overwhelming consensus among registered editors on the page that thrash metal is incorrect. Everytime the term is added by one of the IP sockpuppets or trolling single purpose accounts created by this anon the edit is reverted. No source need be found when consensus rules over the content. Wether B (talk) 00:46, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

This is a thrash metal song though.

This track contains no strong thrash metal elements. That is why the note had to be added to the article to try and stop trolling IPs from adding the genre. It is against the rules to purposely place false information into the project. An editor (and perhaps one or two of his friends) appear to have no real education or understanding as to what the thrash metal genre is but they keep re-adding it, more as an attempt to disrupt Wikipedia rather than contribute in a positive way. Realistically if they truly knew about the genre they wouldn't bother trying to add it to the article. Peter Fleet (talk) 01:04, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

Sorry bro, but you are wrong.

Wow, after this comment, I truly believe that we're wrong. Sign your comments, please. Conservoman (talk) 05:18, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

You are still wrong, and it is really comical how you think your opinion is the only correct one, you must live a lonely life.

How is his opinion be the only one when at least 11 different editors have reverted the page? The consensus is no thrash which is good because it isn't. The song sounds like a Risk leftover. Seek help for genre-impairment... go listen to Exodus... learn what thrash metal is before considering re-adding it to the page. The Real Libs-speak politely 16:06, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

Like a Risk leftover? Jesus Christ, you guys are the definition of incompetence! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.71.66.45 (talk) 16:17, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

A Risk-leftover? Are you kidding me?! Wow, you know NOTHING about thrash metal, or any metal at all after a comment like that. You should be embarrassed to say something so ignorant.

heres your source http://www.metal-archives.com/review.php?id=242748

That link goes to an amateur website that fails Wikipedia's WP:RS policy. Wether B (talk) 03:14, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

http://spinelanguage.wordpress.com/2009/07/07/song-review-megadeth-headcrusher/ how about that?

Conservoman, you say that Wikipedia must be opinion free, correct?

"My opinion? No, the song is nowhere close to thrash." - Conservoman

Conservoman, you also say you must need a source

But where is your source? Maybe Head Crusher should be catigorized as rock since there is no source about the genre. Except for that one that called it a "thrashter-piece," but of course that's not good enough for you. I find it pathetic you say you've been listening to thrash so long and can't identify one of the thrashiest songs ever made by Megadeth. You say it has no thrash beats? The majority of the song has typical thrash beats. The riffage and vocal style of the song fit the definition of thrash metal. I can't understand how you think this song is heavy metal. I love heavy metal as well as thrash metal, but this is no heavy metal song. Heavy metal is Black Sabbath/Heaven and Hell, Dio, Judas Priest and others. Thrash metal is clearly Megadeth. And of course Youthanasia/CW/Risk are not mostly thrash metal, but that doesn't mean Head Crusher can't be. Most people believe (know) this song is thrash metal, and it should say such on Wikipedia. - Scottzar 21:04, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

And no, I am not Rattleglans. I made this account so you wouldn't call me a "random IP" and dismiss me as useless, even though Wikipedia is about gathering information from everyone.

You know, I'm just laughing at your idiotic struggles to make us believe that this song is thrash metal. About my opinion, did you read this: "NOT THAT WIKIPEDIA GIVES A SHIT ABOUT MY OPINION". "<...> are not mostly thrash metal". Wait, so you're implying that 'Risk' has thrash metal elements? And how can I take you seriously after this? Conservoman (talk) 05:16, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

When the hell did Scottzar say Risk was thrash? Just because all Megadeth's back catalog has not been thrash does not mean modern Megadeth is not thrash. You are also bringing opinion into the debate, meaning your argument is effectively irrelevant too. Earlier you stated that thrash metal is the sub-genre and heavy metal is the main genre. The reason sub-genres exist is for further categorization, and if I were to change Cannibal Corpse's genre from death metal to heavy metal it would no doubt be reverted back to death metal etc. Consistency is the key.

DISREGARD THAT, WTF? Now seriously, the thing I listened was some pre production Head Crusher. I've listened to it before (like two or three weeks ago) and now I went to check again. It was different as hell. This shit is definitely thrash or at least heavy/thrash. Well, one second, is this the song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYuAQ17-kiU&feature=related :D Let me know, because I'm confused as hell now. Conservoman (talk) 16:32, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

Ok, I'm quiting this edit war. Mind yourselves, however, I now support the thrash metal tag. Damn, I failed. However, we need a source. :D Conservoman (talk) 16:35, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

Also, I think that all of us here made the same mistake :D It appears that it was another song by MD.45 uploaded. I never paid any attention to that project. The real HC is simply thrash metal. I am also very happy because I thought that Endgame was going to be crap :D Now I don't think so. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Conservoman (talk • contribs) 17:15, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

Conservoman, we did NOT all make the same mistake. I knew right from the start, as well as most people did (I would assume at least), those youtube videos claiming to be Endgame songs were fake. I had actually listened to all of Head Crusher too. Don't jump to conclusions when you don't have your facts straight. Next time, leave thrash metal and Megadeth to the real fans who love and follow the band closely. You can potentially redeem yourself by helping the genre be thrash metal. - Scottzar (talk) 18:11, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

All of you being the same person. It is a good thing you didn't disagree with yourself over whether you are wrong about the style of the song. Your statement "Next time, leave thrash metal and Megadeth to the real fans who love and follow the band closely." is just a red flag for editors to revert your contributions as you will intend to edit like a fanboy and ignore WP:NPOV, WP:V and every other important project policy. It's already been stated previously. Megadeth has had precious little to do with the thrash metal subgenre of heavy metal since the late 1980s. And this song just continues that trend. GripTheHusk (talk) 20:37, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

Maybe I am a Megadeth "fanboy," but that doesn't mean I'm going to change things that aren't true. That's just being judgemental. You shouldn't revert everything I've done just because of that. Of course I am new to Wikipedia editing, so I may make a few mistakes regarding format, but I don't plan to say "Megadeth is the best band ever" or anything like that. That's just an opinion. I don't see how you think Megadeth had little to do with thrash metal, but I guess that's your opinion. Maybe I shouldn't have said that, but that's no reason to undo everything I've done. - Scottzar (talk) 21:36, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

can someone now kindly change it to thrash ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.179.247.18 (talk) 06:43, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

Scottzar, I was talking about us, who were reverting. I'm kinda sorry for that bullshit :D However, if we want to add thrash, we still need a consensus or a reliable source. Conservoman (talk) 07:46, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

Soo...Megadeth calls their new album thrash. Their record label calls it thrash. But they're wrong? Yes, they're Heavy Metal too, but they're a founder of Thrash, I think it's safe to say they know better than anyone else how to classify their music. JackGoMad (talk) 08:34, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

Read WP:SELFREF. They aren't allowed. 142.167.169.71 (talk) 13:37, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

Has anyone who's reverting listened to the real Head Crusher? I hadn't before (I was caught by a fake track) and then I was thinking that it was heavy metal, however, after listening to the real song, it became quite clear that the song is thrash. So, have you guys listened to it? Or have you only listened to fake tracks?Conservoman (talk) 11:15, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

ONCE AND FOR ALL, TO ALL THOSE REVERTING IT: Here is the song, listen to it, chances are you heard a fake (an MD.45 song sung by Mustaine.) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BohJHfPlHnY

What the hell?

I added a source to this song being thrash metal (Well, actually the whole album), and yet it's changed back to heavy? Wasn't it enough? A Powerful Weakness (talk) 18:35, 3 September 2009 (UTC)A Powerful Weakness

Well, it seems that the reverters refuse to either read this page or check out the legitimate song.Conservoman (talk) 17:31, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

its thrash now! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Walkid (talk • contribs) 22:42, 5 September 2009 (UTC) Right on walkid. Hi :D 03:30, 6 September 2009 (UTC) User:Rattleglans

And back again

I changed it back to Heavy... the staff kept saying it's not thrash, so why should it be now? "Does not contain any thrash elements" x1000! THEY CANNOT BE WRONG! They are wiki editors!—Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.70.187.213 (talk) 20:41, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

1. It was discussed on the talk page... and the verdict was "thrash". The staff did not say it was heavy, it was agreeing with the arguments of others... who eventually changed their minds. 2. You're being a dumbass. Listen to it and give your opinion, don't just edit it because you went a few months back on a discussion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rattleglans (talk • contribs) 04:06, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

Video?

Shouldn't someone provide a description of the video? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Metalhead865 (talk • contribs) 16:07, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

Head Crusher? WTF?

Can't we have an article describing the actual head crusher device? Metalhead865 (talk) 16:10, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

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