Talk:Headlight flashing

Direct quote

Scapler, I understand that you were trying to insert something akin to the language you read in the source for the material in question in this edit, but a couple of things make your preferred text a less-than-optimal phrasing choice. Firstly, it's ungrammatical as inserted. It would've been grammatical had it been accurately reproduced from the cited source, but—secondly—a quote isn't warranted here. We strive to write our own text, and use quotes only when they are apposite and convey information that cannot be conveyed as well or better by original text. The idea is to make statements in our own words, then support them with reliable sources. You've done a terrific job of gathering a great many sources for such a young article! —Scheinwerfermann ^T·_C02:25, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Speaking of grammar, your edits which changed a sentence to "Whichever other driver flashes her headlamps" are also grammatically correct. Though it may no longer seem politically correct, in the English language, when a gender is unknown, it is appropriate to use the pronoun "he" and not "she". Cheers! Scapler (talk) 14:30, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Another suggestion for improvement: more diverse language. In the first paragraph of the "Uses" section I count five "also"-sentences, more or less in a row. Lampman (talk) 14:31, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Yes, I more or less have not copyedited my own text yet, so I'm truly thankful that others have jumped in to contribute to the article by smoothing things out where I went wrong. Cheers! Scapler (talk) 14:35, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Yes, my edits changed a sentence from his to her, which is not considered grammatically incorrect. I'm not much on "political correctness"—a phrase so hackneyed it has little meaning—but I do find it best to use inclusive language where possible. Alternating or mixed application of "his" and "her" serves the purpose without the awkwardness of "his or her". I certainly don't intend to make a federal case of the matter, though your dismissive and borderline-proprietary tone is not really warranted. —Scheinwerfermann ^T·_C15:02, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Please remain civil, how thanking you for pointing out and correcting mistakes in the article is "dismissive and borderline-proprietary" is beyond me. I, like you, support the mission of the site to be a collaborative encyclopedia, so don't go trying to make conflict where there is none, as it serves no purpose. Cheers! Scapler (talk) 04:10, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

The comment "Though the warning has been proven a hoax, there have been isolated incidents similar to the event" is not supported by the referenced document. The referenced document speaks about an incident initially reported to be a gang-initiation incident that was later discovered to be a drug deal gone bad. (Schlenker, Dave (29 December 1998). "Let's be careful out there". Star-Banner (The New York Times Company). http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=UM0UAAAAIBAJ&sjid=NggEAAAAIBAJ&pg=5665,8449140&dq=flashing+headlights. Retrieved on 28 July 2009.) My apologies for mistakes in conveying this issue. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.16.215.129 (talk) 18:18, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Verbiage in the Legality section

Could we conform all of the state by state entries to use the same verbiage? As of right now (06 May 2010), I see "illegal", "legal", "not illegal", "not legal", "against the law", etc...
It would be much less confusing while reading through if we had all of the descriptions conform to the same standard. -Deathsythe (talk) 18:00, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

Short answer: no. The terms "illegal", "legal", and "not illegal" mean three different things. As for "not legal", I'm not sure what that means, but it doesn't appear in the article so I don't think we need to worry about it. -SirMontego (talk) 17:00, 26 Jan 2011

Emergency vehicles

At least in the UK, it is common for emergency vehicles to be equipped with headlights that flash alternately, as an adjunct to the flashing blue beacons. Is this common in other territories, and should it be mentioned in this article?--Streapadair (talk) 09:55, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

The headlight flashing that is being referred to in this article is when a vehicle flashes their high-beams at oncoming traffic. -Deathsythe (talk) 18:01, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

Motorcycle Headlight Modulator Correction

Motorcycle Headlight Modulator

KrashTestDumby (talk) 18:10, 7 September 2011 (UTC) - The paragraph describing a motorcycle headlight modulator is 100% incorrect! I attempted to edit and correct this yesterday (06-SEP-2011) and my edit has been reverted.

Please compare the current description "... automatically blink the high beams on and off while the low beam is steadily illuminated..." to the federal standard (law) available from the Department of Transportation website: FMVSS Part 571.108 S7.9.4 Motorcycle headlamp modulation system.

Paragraph (c) of S7.9.4 specifically states the lowest intensity is to be 17 percent of the maximum intensity at the point where measurement is taken. This eliminates the possibility of the beam "blinking on and off" as currently described.

In paragraph (c) of S5.5.10, the standard sates "A motorcycle headlamp may be wired to allow either its upper beam or its lower beam, but not both, to modulate from a higher intensity to a lower intensity in accordance with section S5.6;" This makes the current description "blink the high beams on and off while the low beam is steadily illuminated" patently incorrect.

If accuracy is the main goal of the community, I'll let a trusted editor make the changes since my edit was reverted.

I have re-added your corrections back in; they were never the problem, rather the issue was that you removed a reference without explanation from the article. Removing references from an article makes it less reliable and does not allow accuracy to be checked. Your corrections are of course welcomed and have been put back in. かんぱい！ Scapler (talk) 22:28, 7 September 2011 (UTC)

KrashTestDumby (talk) 11:56, 8 September 2011 (UTC) Ah, ha! First edit ever! Read instructions, looked at examples, missed the part about the "why." I'll gladly accept the scolding, and keep trying! Thanks!

Assault

Flashing bright lights into a person's face while he's driving a two-tonne piece of machinery at high speeds is such an obvious safety risk that the only conceivable purpose of doing so is assault? Why the silence on this as a motive? It's like pushing a pedestrian into traffic, except with the added danger of indiscriminately assaulting everyone around him. But, no one is talking about this? You mention that it's assault, and the intent is murder, and a bunch of people attack you, claiming that there's nothing wrong with deliberately blinding someone barrelling down the highway, and if they crash, that's on their eyes. Really? Even a judge recently ruled that this, and by proxy, pushing people into traffic, is covered under the first amendment. I made this statement of truth in an edit and it was quickly censored. If I were a bit more cynical, I might assume a giant conspiracy of silence to help people get away with murder by causing traffic accidents50.130.11.182 (talk) 20:40, 7 February 2014 (UTC)

Aggressively flashing lights in the eyes of a motorist is indeed a dangerous act. If you can find information from a WP:RS about the judge's ruling and it is relevant, you are invited to add the information, or to discuss it here first. Cheers! Reify-tech (talk) 04:16, 8 February 2014 (UTC)

I'm not a Wikipedia editor. Just a person who cares enough about the other motorists on the road to call bull on the "communication" defence for assault. But, here's the article I read, and there are many others that talk about this ruling, so if this source isn't good enough, I'm sure there's one that is: http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2014/02/04/judge-drivers-allowed-to-warn-fellow-motorists-of-speed-traps/50.130.11.182 (talk) 05:20, 8 February 2014 (UTC)

External links modified

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Expansion of article

I suggest that this article could be expanded to cover the similar use of turn/hazard lights not for their explicit purpose but for unofficial but widely understood messages.

For example, in the UK where I have driven (or been driven) for over 50 years I have regularly witnessed or taken part in the following scenario:

1. A car or lorry (truck) driver wants to overtake a lorry in front, but cannot see past it so as to know if the oncoming (right hand – remember we drive on the left!) lane is clear of traffic.
2. Positioning his/her vehicle far enough to the right that the front driver can see it in his/her side mirror, the rear driver operates the right turn/overtaking indicator for two or three flashes ("Can I overtake?").
3. If the oncoming lane is not clear, the front driver flashes his/her right-hand/overtaking indicator ("Don't try it yet!").
4. If the lane is clear the front driver flashes his/her left-turn indicator ("All clear now").
5. The rear driver overtakes (the other driver may slow down a little to expedite the manoeuvre).
6. The overtaken driver flashes his/her headlights to signal when there is sufficient clearence for the overtaking driver to move back into lane ("Clear of me now").
7. The overtaking driver either flashes his/her left- and right-hand indicators alternately for a couple of seconds, or flashes both (the hazard warning) for a couple of seconds (Thank you!").

7. is also widely used in various other other situations where one driver has received a courtesy from the now-following one.

Since such signalling is unofficial, and officially deprecated, Reliable sources might not be so easy to find. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.200.138.194 (talk) 11:24, 2 April 2019 (UTC)

India?

An editor (User:136.2.33.165)changed text in the "India" subsection from

Headlight flashing in India is often used as a signal that the driver flashing you is offering to let you go first.

to

Headlight flashing in India is often used as a signal that the driver flashing you is asking to be let go first.

Which is the opposite. But another (User:MartinezMD) editor changed it back.

So which is it?

Well the only sources I could find were people talking in forums, which if course can't be used as refs, but leads me to believe that headlight flashing:

1. Is confusing to a lot of Indians themselves.
2. Mostly means right-of-way is demanded -- generally more aggressive than "asking to be let go first". More like "indicating that they are going ahead".
3. Can mean other things in other situations, such as when passing. I guess it also can mean that you're offering right of way, I dunno.

So it seems like maybe the edit was OK and shouldn't have been reverted.

But I'm not sure so I left it. I tagged it for refs. Since it is unref'd and disputed, it should probably be deleted unless a good ref can be found. Herostratus (talk) 21:47, 29 June 2020 (UTC)

I reverted it because the change was made by an anonymous editor, with no explanation, whose last edit had to be both reverted and redacted, and it had been stable for many years. MartinezMD (talk) 00:23, 30 June 2020 (UTC)

Oh, absolutely, User:MartinezMD. That was correct, not complaining, I'd do the same myself. I just got curious and looked it up, and it looks like the person might be right (ever all, even a blind pig is right twice a day). It's fine tho, I tagged it for refs, that's enough for now IMO. Herostratus (talk) 03:41, 1 July 2020 (UTC)

---

Alright, so now a user has replaced

Headlight flashing in India is often used as a signal that the driver flashing you is offering to let you go first. Such use is however strongly discouraged because it can lead to accidents where the driver flashing has not seen the approach of another road user. It is also used to indicate to an oncoming vehicle to either stop or give way in narrow lanes.

with

Headlight flashing in India is often used as a signal that the driver flashing you is alerting you that a vehicle is behind you and asking you to give way. It is also used to indicate to an oncoming vehicle to either stop or give way in narrow lanes or requesting them to lower their lights so the driver can have a visibility of the road ahead.

"Vehicle behind you"... this is new. So honestly... it seems like headlight flashing means different things to different people at different times and places, I guess. India is very large after all.

So I'm going to change to section to reflect this. Herostratus (talk) 16:29, 13 February 2021 (UTC)