Talk:Heckler & Koch

Misc

• Does anyone care if "many fans feel that HK is the world's premiere firearm manufacturer"? This does not have the ring of encyclopedic content and several parts of this article read like this, and lack citations. It could stand to be cleaned up in terms of tone and focus. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.106.188.82 (talk) 21:38, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

• added the HK 4 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.0.149.121 (talk) 21:07, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

I can find no official mention of the name "Heckler und Koch" on any of the manufacturer's web pages. It appears that the official name of the company is "Heckler & Koch". I propose that all instances of "Heckler und Koch" on wikipedia should be replaced with "Heckler & Koch."

• I favor the revision. --D.E. Watters 22:09, July 11, 2005 (UTC)
• Support. The move is also supported by the 'common names' policy. Niteowlneils 22:27, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
• btw it's common practice in Germany (and I think elsewhere too) to replace the "und" with "&" in company names

External Links

Shouldn't hkpro be referred to as more than a mere fan site? It now hosts the official forums of HK-USA, where customer support, marketing, and the official shooting team from the company post.Kirbysdl (talk) 05:46, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Class Rating

• I have rated this article as B class having checked the B class criteria Philip.t.day (talk) 22:47, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Renaming

I have moved the main HK page and will work on changing the other pages that use 'und' instead of '&'.

• This link should help anyone else who wants to lend a hand in the renaming process.

Pronunciation

Pronunciation: according to HK, 'The English pronunciation is pronounced, “coke.”'

Yeah, whatever. Koch is German for cook, and believe me, it's not pronounced like Coke. Why the "English pronunciation" then? My guess is that H&K representatives want to sell guns instead of teaching foreign pronounciation to a people widely known to ignore anything outside their own country. --Yooden

Despite the fact that no German would pronounce koch as coke, H&K has decided that this is how they will market their name. As loch is pronounced 'läk ... somewhat close to 'cock', I have put it down. As for 'coke,' sorry Yooden that this apparently offends you but for the purposes of Wikipedia, your own misgivings of American culture are irrelevant. Send an email to H&K.

I don't know who you are, but I think some things should be considered: First, H&K is a German company. Feel free to write an article about the US subsidiary and pronounce them in whatever way they would like you to. Second, I linked to a pronounciation guide, there is not much point in finding alternative pronounciations for loch which do mislead the reader wrt Koch.

Anyway, I think the current text is an acceptable compromise. --Yooden

The 'American English' pronounciation may be 'coke', but the 'English English' pronounciation is 'loch'.

Regardless of what personal preferences may be, here's an article discussing this very same problem that should provide the final word on the issue: http://www.hkpro.com/koch.htm Also, working at an indoor range and store that carries HK weapons, I can back up this article from personal experience and with working with HK USA and HK Obendorf staff. --Swordmaster2k1 01:58, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

It's pronounced however you say Loch; but with a hard-C at the start. American retardation of pronunciation (especially simple non-french, non-English ones) shouldn't come into it. "Have fun in Lose Angeles with Carlose and his coke." --86.23.55.139 (talk) 10:33, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

This is a weird argument about the pronunciation. First time seeing this on Wikipedia. Who has included All this dialogue? Shouldn't there just be the information copied from the H&K website posted above? Why still involve the process of getting to that point. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 1.132.96.246 (talk) 21:42, 5 December 2015 (UTC)

List of Products

Does anyone else think that the List of Heckler & Koch firearms and small arm products section should be movedd to a seperate list of article? Also, could we remove the links connected with the variant models thaat only link to the original model's article? --talkie_tim 16:30, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

Oh, good idea. Maybe we could have a seperate article on it. It is quite extensive. Lkegley9 07:15, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, rip them out. I think this is interesting only for people who already know the list by heart.

I did this to one of the families, I think it should be done across the board. OTOH, once the list is in an external article, I don't care either way. --Yooden

I'll get the list up as another article here and I'll provide a link once I'm finished Lkegley9 06:01, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

Got it List of Heckler & Koch products Thanks to someone (don't know who) for redirecting it from my original article Lkegley9 06:10, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

HK19

Anyone know what the HK19 weapon mentioned here Provisional IRA arms importation could be? Thanks Fluffy999 23:33, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

It doesn't exist. The only HK SMG in the '70s was the MP5. --D.E. Watters 17:55, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks! Fluffy999 19:23, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

G41

Why is the HK G41 under "Special Weapons"? From what I know, it's just another 5.56 roller-delayed blowback assault rifle, similar to the HK33. 70.179.127.215 20:57, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

H&K make the best weapons in the world, trust me i know from experiance. There the professionals weapons. The accuracy, power, durability and diversity makes them great and sets them apart from all other gun manufacturers.

Alex Seidel

Is there any reason that his name, unlike that of the other co-founders, is not included in the company name? If he made a lesser contribution than Edmund Heckler and Theodor Koch, that ought to be mentioned in the article. 71.203.209.0 03:13, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Stock Symbol?

What is HK's stock symbol? 68.113.47.82 18:28, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Heckler & Koch GmbH isn't publicly traded. —Thernlund ^{(Talk | Contribs)} 19:10, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply. Earlier, the info box indicated it was a public company. 68.113.47.82 01:01, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:H&K Factory.jpg

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BetacommandBot 02:43, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Company ownership?

I'm hearing claims that the company was sold off to a bidder in the Middle East (UAE?). Is anyone able to shed some light on this? Koalorka (talk) 06:59, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

As of 2020, the Luxembourgish company CDE has a 60% stake in H&K, and is therefore the majority stakeholder of the company. So no, not the UAE. The CDE's main man is the Frenchman Nicolas Walewski. Source: https://www.handelsblatt.com/unternehmen/mittelstand/familienunternehmer/nicolas-walewski-neuer-investor-will-die-schulden-von-heckler-und-koch-abbauen/26128746.html Poundthiswriter (talk) 03:40, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

Advertisement?

The sentence "Heckler & Koch firearms are known for their precision, durability, reliability and build quality." sounds more like an Advertisement than an encyclopaedia article and has therefore been removed. -- _Mr\ ^Lore 00:57, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

HK, because you suck, and we hate you

Recently HK has come under fire in the (internet english-speaking) Gun owning community due to their (supposed) horrible customer service and general attitude towards their civilian market. I think that this should be brought up in their article, but I do not see how I could write it without sizable vitriol.

Anyone with an unbiased POV could check it out though.

Link to a display of this criticism, and one that has been oft repeated.

Rynosaur (talk) 22:13, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

HKPRO

I have deleted a couple of citations to HKPRO.com. It is not a reliable source for Wikipedia articles because its articles are anonymously posted and there's no discernible editorial review process. See WP:V for general rules, and Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Firearms#HKPRO/ hkpro.com for a specific discussion of this source. Rezin (talk) 22:00, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

External links modified

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The company motto or the company's motto?

Which should be chosen? I'm changing it to the latter for the time being, but feel free to correct.--Adûnâi (talk) 01:18, 2 May 2017 (UTC)

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About the HK Slap

Should the HK Slap be added to the article? It's became infamous in media, so it should be notable.

JoMiMi2019 (talk) 04:45, 25 November 2019 (UTC)

I think this "HK Slap" is only infamous in a small subsection/niche of American media groups. A quick Google Trends search reveals a similar image. In my view it is not notable enough to be considered for the main article. Arms companies are not really known for their "Trivia" section. Poundthiswriter (talk) 03:45, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

Naming and Werknummer

The section on werknummer could probably use an update and maybe a few examples unless the HK416 is a

• (4) fifth-generation
• (1) Magazine-fed machine gun chambered in
• (6) HK 4.6x30mm.

NB: Yes, I am aware that the article previously mentions that the specific HK416 doesn't follow werknummer but that is easy to miss with the current layout (for example - I missed it until I started reading closer in order to write this text)

Instead of:

• Naming (info about werknummer exceptions)
  • Abbreviations
    • (table)
  • Werknummer (well after the info)
    • (table)

It might instead be beneficial to do it like:

• Naming
  • Abbreviations and Werknummer
  • (table)
  • (table)

82.134.169.160 (talk) 15:38, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

Heckler & Koch was founded by a nazi

I did not believe this to be a contentious topic, but apparently it is. Edmund Heckler was a card-carrying member of the NSDAP. He became a member for "career interests." during his time at Mauser. His status as a nazi is relevant to the article because he became a nazi to further his carreer in Mauser (at a site where forced labour was used by the nazis as he was working there might I add). A career which helped shape his knowledge of the arms manufactoring field which in turn helped him become a key founding member of HK. Theodor Koch was a "Fördermitglied der SS." An "official" registered financier of the Waffen-SS, supporting the nazi government's armed wing with his own money, voluntarily. The SS should not be confused with the Wehrmacht, the SS was specifically the armed wing of the nazi party itself, not the German government as a whole. Ideologically Seidel and Koch were more "removed" from national socialism as a political leaning, so I recommend extended the nazi classification to Heckler. Although the other two were actively complicit as part of the Nazi war machine, an argument can be made for them to be classified as nazis as well, and I certainly wouldn't protest that. Heckler, however, is unequivically a nazi, and should be labeled as such since his relations with high ranking nazis awarded him with the prestige and knowledge required to make HK such a prominent manufacturer in Germany after the war (since many industrialists and members of the upper class in West Germany were former NSDAP as well). Heckler's time at HASAG (Leipzig) under a radical SS officer taught him, among other things, how to restore and repair ammunition.

Sources for Koch's status as Fördermitglied: https://www.zeit.de/news/2023-09/19/gruender-von-heckler-koch-waren-in-nazi-zeiten-mitlaeufer

Sources for Heckler's status as card-carrying nazi: https://www.faz.net/aktuell/wirtschaft/unternehmen/heckler-koch-das-steht-in-der-studie-zur-ns-vergangenheit-19187618.html https://hasagpuzzle.hypotheses.org/4023#footnote_0_4023

Archive of Heckler's registration as NSDAP member: Landesarchiv Baden-Württemberg, Abt. Staatsarchiv Sigmaringen, Wü 13 T 2 Nr. 2554/155.

Sources for Heckler's nazi involvement being key in his (and therefore later on H&K's) knowledge of munition repair: https://www.zeit.de/wirtschaft/unternehmen/2023-09/heckler-und-koch-nazi-zeit-nsdap-edmund-heckler-hasag

I have made edits attempting to insert this important historical event into the history tab of the article, but have been threatened for it, so I will add this here and people can decide whether this is worth adding. Poundthiswriter (talk) 23:45, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

• Sorry, but you've been "threatened" for edit warring, editing against consensus, personal attacks, and violations of WP:AGF. Drmies (talk) 01:01, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

  Editing against consensus when there is no consensus and I have provided irrefutable proof of the statements I am editing into the document, is not a thing that exists. The same thing goes for AGF when someone is trying to undo my edits and I provide sources for why I made said edits, and this person proceeds to tell me they didn't even bother reading the source I sent. Lastly, there have been no personal attacks as far as I'm concerned, I have been civil yet direct in my replies as I am being now.

  Please keep any future replies relevant to the *content* of the article. Any grievances you have with me personally have no relevance to the Talk Page of this article. As an admin you know that better than I do. Poundthiswriter (talk) 03:32, 5 November 2024 (UTC)