Talk:Hellenistic Palestine
Latest comment: 3 months ago by JonJuan in topic Duplicative article
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Duplicative article
editI don't think this article is necessary in its current form. Its topics have already been discussed in depth in our article on the Second Temple period, and its more specific, drilled-down phases are explored in the entries on Coele-Syria, the Hasmonean Kingdom of Judea, and Herodian Kingdom of Judea. Tombah (talk) 13:29, 9 June 2023 (UTC)
- The subjects are overlapping but distinct. It's a Venn diagram situation. This page doesn't cover the Persian or Herodian/Roman periods, and the emphasis is on the history of the region as characterized by Hellenistic cultural influence (a major period of cultural influence in the Eastern Mediterranean and Near East); this is quite distinct from the Second Temple Period, which is a localized characterization based on an explicitly religious framing of history. For more information on the subject, see the further reading section for examples of academic sources on that discuss the politics, economics and culture of the region in the specific context of the Hellenistic period. I plan on expanding the page based on these sources in due course. It's a work in progress. Iskandar323 (talk) 14:20, 9 June 2023 (UTC)
- The term "Second Temple period" is not a religious term but a term common in academic (secular) scholarship to refer to Jewish history from 516 BCE up until 70 CE (and by product, the history of Judea proper, which had a Jewish majority before the Bar Kokhba revolt). While we already have an article for late Hellenistic Judea (titled the Hasmonean kingdom), we might need an article that will focus on *early* Hellenistic Judea (that is to say pre-Hasmonean Hellenistic Judea), also briefly touching on the Hasmonean rule as it is usually included as part of the Hellenistic period. So, on second thought, this article, with some adjustments, may be necessary after all (not sure about the naming though). Other than that, I'm not sure why we need to cover again the same historical episodes and cultural, social, religious and demographic themes already covered in the articles I mentioned above. Tombah (talk) 14:43, 9 June 2023 (UTC)
- I didn't say it was a religious term; I said it was a religious framing. Some scholars may consider that a useful framing in which to discuss the region, and they are entitled to do so, but all historical periods are a matter of framing, and there are countless iterations and overlaps. There is no single correct framing: it is all academic opinion. If you ask where antiquity ends and middle ages begins you will get a thousand answers, all equally valid. Some scholars talk of the "copper age" between stone and bronze; other treat it as part of the latter. This is different from the naming of a discrete state or polity that one needs to clearly define and thus choose a common name for. The Hellenistic period is a common denominator across much of the old world, as you can see from Category:Hellenistic period by region, and the study of the period is a discrete discipline that extends well beyond the context of the region concerned here. Iskandar323 (talk) 15:09, 9 June 2023 (UTC)
- I don't understand how this value has the falsified title of Hellenistic Palestine - The romans haven't invented the name Syria-Palestina at this time, so you cannot title it Hellenistic Palestine. It is Hellenistic Judea. JonJuan (talk) 17:32, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
- I didn't say it was a religious term; I said it was a religious framing. Some scholars may consider that a useful framing in which to discuss the region, and they are entitled to do so, but all historical periods are a matter of framing, and there are countless iterations and overlaps. There is no single correct framing: it is all academic opinion. If you ask where antiquity ends and middle ages begins you will get a thousand answers, all equally valid. Some scholars talk of the "copper age" between stone and bronze; other treat it as part of the latter. This is different from the naming of a discrete state or polity that one needs to clearly define and thus choose a common name for. The Hellenistic period is a common denominator across much of the old world, as you can see from Category:Hellenistic period by region, and the study of the period is a discrete discipline that extends well beyond the context of the region concerned here. Iskandar323 (talk) 15:09, 9 June 2023 (UTC)
- The term "Second Temple period" is not a religious term but a term common in academic (secular) scholarship to refer to Jewish history from 516 BCE up until 70 CE (and by product, the history of Judea proper, which had a Jewish majority before the Bar Kokhba revolt). While we already have an article for late Hellenistic Judea (titled the Hasmonean kingdom), we might need an article that will focus on *early* Hellenistic Judea (that is to say pre-Hasmonean Hellenistic Judea), also briefly touching on the Hasmonean rule as it is usually included as part of the Hellenistic period. So, on second thought, this article, with some adjustments, may be necessary after all (not sure about the naming though). Other than that, I'm not sure why we need to cover again the same historical episodes and cultural, social, religious and demographic themes already covered in the articles I mentioned above. Tombah (talk) 14:43, 9 June 2023 (UTC)