Talk:Hemulen

There are Many Hemulens

In the books there is never more than one hemulen present at one time. Consequently, once "a hemulen" has been introduced, it is referred to in the text as "the hemulen". This is perfectly normal English use of the definite article. However, this sometimes leads readers to think that there is one character in the Moomin books called "The Hemulen", and to identify different hemulens from different books. Certainly there is nothing to say that sometimes when a hemulen appears it may not be a reappearance of one that has been met before, but in several cases it is quite clear that "the hemulen" in one place refers to a different hemulen than in another place. I mention this as a warning, because in the past various Wikipedia articles have contained matter concerning hemulens which has suffered from confusing different hemulens together. JamesBWatson (talk) 11:58, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

The translation "one Hemulen" is apparently incorrect by the English translator. It should be one Hemule, several Hemules, Hemuli for the speices. Cf Heruli. "Hemule" is a Swedish adjective, meaning reasonable. "Hemulen" is the definitive case.Sponsianus (talk) 15:40, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

Yes indeed. Sponsianus says that "Hemulen" is the definitive case; another form of words for the same fact is that the -n on the end is a post-fixed definite article, in other words "hemulen" means "the hemule", so that "the hemulen" strictly means "the the hemule". I did not mention this above, because it was not relevant to the point I was making, but it is certainly interesting. Whatever we may think of the translation, "the hemulen" has become the accepted English form. The one thing here that I did not know is that "hemule" has a separate existence as an adjective in Swedish: that too is interesting.

The one point here with which I would take issue is the suggestion of a separate form "Hemuli" for the species: I do not know of any example in English of a special species form of a noun distinct from the normal singular and plural forms. "Heruli" is quoted as an analogue. This is a Latin plural, traditionally used because the name, like many other ancient names, is known to us mostly from Greek and Latin sources. There does not seem to be any compelling reason to continue this tradition for a Germanic people, and many people now prefer to use the English plural "Heruls", but they are simply alternative plurals, not being distinguished in use as one for a few and the other for the whole tribe. The Wikipedia article on them to which Sponsianus links is a mess, using the two plurals inconsistently, depending on the preferences of individual editors. It is easy to see that there is no such distinction in their use. For example:

• The Heruli ... were a nomadic Germanic people [Heruli for whole tribe]
• The Heruls are first mentioned by Roman writers ... [Heruls for whole tribe]
• ... many Heruli returned to Scandinavia ... [Heruli for some of them]
• From the end of the third century, Heruls are also mentioned as raiders ... [Heruls for some of them]

Anyway, whether one prefers a Latin or an English plural for "herul", I can see no earthly reason for inventing a Latinate plural for "hemule", which, as far as I know, has no Latin connection.

JamesBWatson (talk) 16:27, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

Whether "the hemulen" is an "incorrect" translation or not, shouldn't matter as long as it's used in the official translation. 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 23:50, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

Yes, absolutely. I still find it interesting, though. JamesBWatson (talk) 10:30, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

Maybe the translator thought it sounded better than "hemule" or something. 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 23:49, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

I find odd the discussion on Heruli vs. Heruls. "Heruli" is certainly a Latinate plural, not, however, of English "Herul" (which makes pl. "Heruls", but of Latinate "Herulus", which is masculine. A "Hemule", as a name of human-like beings, would sound feminine to a Latin ear; therefore the Latinate plural of "Hemule" may not be anything else than "Hemulae". -212.87.13.78 (talk) 19:40, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

Why would "Hemule" "sound feminine to a Latin ear"? All Latin nouns which end in "-e" are neuter, and its plural would be "Hemulia". Besides, how the word would be treated in Latin if it were a Latin word is completely irrelevant to how an English-language encyclopaedia should treat a word of Swedish origin. JamesBWatson (talk) 15:11, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

You are wrong. No personal Latin name can be neuter, therefore no personal Latin name ends in "-ĕ", which is the neuter ending in the 3rd declension. But there are many feminine personal names ending in "-ē", which is a graecising feminine ending. Therefore "Hemule" obviously would sound feminine to a Roman ear. -78.8.84.158 (talk) 18:58, 7 November 2015 (UTC)

What have personal names got to do with it? The word is not a personal name: it is the name of a species of animals. The editor who uses the pseudonym "JamesBWatson" (talk) 21:42, 7 November 2015 (UTC)

Also, are there any Latin feminine personal names ending in "-ē"? Certainly there are Greek nouns sometimes used in Latin which do so, but that is not the same thing as Latin nouns, any more than "Julius Caesar" and "Vladimir Putin" are English names, just because they are sometimes used in English. If you know of any Latin names ending in "-ē" then I would be interested to learn of them. The editor who uses the pseudonym "JamesBWatson" (talk) 21:50, 7 November 2015 (UTC)