Talk:Henri Vieuxtemps
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NPOV in the last paragraph
editStarting with "It is because of his seven violin concertos..." the paragraph appears to be the opinion of its authors. Derobert 17:01, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
- I'll just tweak it a bit. It looks like it came from the 1911 EB. Piccadilly 19:28, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
Comment
editIt'd be nice to have all of his major works listed here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.162.20.126 (talk) 13:11, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
Henry (not Henri) Vieuxtemps
editGrove Dictionary of Music has Vieuxtemps' first name as Henry; Britannica has the same: [1] It even appears as 'Henry' on his tombstone: [2] Oh, and one of the External Links at the end of this page spells it Henry too. Is there any reason why the title of this article isn't changed? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.174.8.253 (talk) 12:03, 22 August 2014 (UTC)
- Also, nearly all published scores in Vieuxtemps' lifetime are as 'Henry Vieuxtemps'; To date, approximately 75% as 'Henry', 25% as 'Henri'. Hrdinský 〒 13:30, 22 August 2014 (UTC)
Has anyone seen this yet? It looks as if no one wants to give a reason why the title shouldn't be changed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.174.8.253 (talk) 11:29, 10 September 2014 (UTC)
- Henry Vieuxtemps gets 21,000 ghits, vs. 107,000 for Henri Vieuxtemps. Still, that 21,000 is not something to be dismissed lightly.
- It gets a brief mention here. Apart from that, I can't find any discussion online about the change in spelling. I say "change", because you cite Grove as calling him "Henry" now, but in my Grove 5th edition he's "Henri". -- Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 11:54, 10 September 2014 (UTC)
- I've had a walk through some of his scores at IMSLP, and so far all have been "Henri", none "Henry". Could we have a citation for "nearly all published as Henry"? -- Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 12:01, 10 September 2014 (UTC)
- I merely did a search at WorldCat to see what spelling is used on published scores: Henry Vieuxtemps (154), Henri Vieuxtemps (98). I did the math taking into consideration whether the score was published in his lifetime. Some publish as 'Henry', others as 'Henri'. Early publications at IMSLP only have 'H. Vieuxtemps' on the first page of the score. Spellings are frequently changed from the original to suit the publisher or country of publication. This seems to be the case here as well. Hrdinský 〒 12:47, 10 September 2014 (UTC)
I'm confused – are facts now dictated by the number of Google hits? I'm using Grove Music Online, which I take it is the most up-to-date version: [3] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.174.8.253 (talk) 10:16, 11 September 2014 (UTC)
- Thanks for the citations. But it seems to be not as black and white as "He was named Henry, end of discussion". Clearly, there is a LOT of material, going back for 150-odd years, attesting to the existence of the "Henri" version of his name, and we can't just ignore that, the way Grove seems to be doing. They've changed their tune since their 5th edition, but are saying nothing about the reason for the change, or even the fact of it. That's not good enough. At the very least, if we are to change our article, we must acknowledge the existence of "Henri" in many reliable sources, and explain why we're preferring "Henry" now. (Btw, I note the French article is Henri, with no mention of Henry.) -- Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 11:25, 11 September 2014 (UTC)
Would some more citations help? The Prix Henry Vieuxtemps, a violin competition held in his name: [4] Henry Vieuxtemps in the Oxford Companion to Music: [5] A reference to Henry V. in The Strad (I can't find a reference to 'Henri' anywhere; also look at the CD cover): [6] . But really, I would have thought the photo of his gravestone would be the clincher here. Much of Vieuxtemps' music was published in France, where obviously his name would have been spelt 'Henri'; also, one of the first biographies of Vieuxtemps (Radoux' 1891 "Vieuxtemps: sa vie, ses oeuvres") was French. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.174.8.253 (talk) 12:04, 11 September 2014 (UTC)
- You're not hearing me. I acknowledge all the cites you've provided. That isn't the issue. We have to explain how "Henri" became the accepted and sole form of his name for well over a century, and why it's now being changed to "Henry". And we have to explain why everybody seems to have just accepted that without any discussion. Everyone, except the authors of the French WP article, that is. And given that "Henry" appears (and has presumably always appeared thus) on his gravestone, we have to explain why most sources ignored that for so long and still called him "Henri". Did they think it was a stonemason's misprint or something? -- Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 22:40, 11 September 2014 (UTC)
- My unreferenced 'guess' is that due to him being popularized mostly by the French, that the French variant of his name became what has 'stuck' as far as history is concerned - sort of a WP: COMMONNAME sort of thing. Finding a biography that explicitly states that, I leave to people like Jack and his minions (not the little yellow guys, I mean his family members :-) . . .) That said, don't you think the lede should mention his birth name/death name? 98.67.190.23 (talk) 04:06, 9 April 2016 (UTC)
References
- ^ http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/628583/Henry-Vieuxtemps
- ^ http://www.violinist.com/blog/jenohubay/hvt2.jpg
- ^ http://i.imgur.com/eZdfZml.png
- ^ http://www.prixvieuxtemps.be
- ^ http://www.oxfordreference.com/view/10.1093/acref/9780199579037.001.0001/acref-9780199579037-e-7142?rskey=32epF9&result=2
- ^ http://www.thestrad.com/reviews/vieuxtemps-fantasia-appassionata-op-35-ballade-et-polonaise-op-38-fantaisie-caprice-op-11-greeting-to-america-op-56
Unreasonable deletion of a reference?
edit@Billinghurst You removed the reference I added yesterday. It has also been removed from the French Wikipedia. May I know the reason for this deletion? This is a recent, detailed and sourced scientific article on Vieuxtemps which seems to me to deserve to be included in the article. Could you undo the removing? Ralbetier (talk) 06:59, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
- @Ralbetier: You added an external link, rather than a reference--which would be use as citing sources when adding extra information. There was no particular clarity on the addition on any wiki, no demonstration that we had a reliable source and it was spam-like in its addition. We are not a directory so some caution in the methodology so it looks less spammy and that you are showing due consideration of any addition. — billinghurst sDrewth 08:34, 2 August 2023 (UTC)
- Thanks for your reply. I have added the article as an external link rather than as a reference, and by formulating it more succinctly. As far as the reliability of the article is concerned, this is a recent academic publication that fully meets standard scientific criteria, as one contributor on the German wiki also pointed out. Ralbetier (talk) 10:12, 3 August 2023 (UTC)