Talk:Henry Lidgbird Ball/GA2

GA Review

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Reviewer: Mike Christie (talk · contribs) 14:40, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

I'll review this. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 14:40, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

Images are appropriately tagged; sources are reliable. I'm not a subject matter expert but referring to the very useful previous GA review everything seems to have been addressed that was listed.

• You use "it" for Daedalus in the lead; I thought "she" was standard usage.
• The previous GA reviewer said "this is not an exhaustive list"; were you able to find additional material beyond what they listed?

I've made a few minor copyedits; please check I didn't screw anything up. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 15:19, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

Also pinging Pickersgill-Cunliffe, the original GA reviewer, in case they wish to comment. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 15:55, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

Hi, admittedly haven't kept up with this article but will stick my oar in nonetheless. I added a list of comments that I think have been acted on, but am not totally sure having not had this article watchlisted. A brief skim through brings up uncited sentences beginning "With Rowley appointed in April 1807..." and "Neither marriage...", and there might still be some optimistic use of Winfield, e.g. ref. #29 shouldn't be able to provide the initial returning to Britain detail. Looks to be quite a few ship names that could do with red links too. Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 16:19, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

Knightmare 3112, just checking to see if you're planning to work on this article? Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 08:41, 12 September 2022 (UTC)

Yeah I’m working on it Knightmare 3112 (talk) 06:53, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

Knightmare 3112, are you still planning to work on this? No problem if you're planning to get back to it soon. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 11:09, 24 September 2022 (UTC)

I’ve edited the issues that you’ve brought up already Knightmare 3112 (talk) 11:40, 25 September 2022 (UTC)

OK, I'll take another look and add spotchecks. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 12:55, 25 September 2022 (UTC)

I'm going back through Pickersgill-Cunliffe's old comments to see what is outstanding. Pinging Pickersgill-Cunliffe: I have a question or two about your comments below -- I hope you don't mind a ping, as I'm not expert in this topic.

• "Neither marriage produced any children" is uncited.
• I said above that the images were appropriately tagged, but looking through Pickersgill-Cunliffe's comments I see they correctly point out that File:HenryLidgbirdBall.jpg needs a US PD tag.
• P-C's comment was 'Ships when first introduced should be preceded by their type, e.g. "the 36-gun frigate HMS Venus" or "the frigate HMS Venus".' This has not been done throughout. I wouldn't have thought it universally necessary but perhaps Pickersgill-Cunliffe can comment on that?
  • I won't die on my hill for the inclusion, but it is generally expected that upon first mention a ship is at least vaguely described. With the Royal Navy operating so many warships of different types and sizes, "HMS" alone doesn't tell us much. Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 16:02, 25 September 2022 (UTC)
• Choose how ships will be named and stick with it. E.g. will it be "Supply" or "the Supply"? -- this is still not consistent throughout; e.g. "On 5 March 1790 the Sirius and Supply". You can find these in the edit window by searching for "the ''".
• "On the return voyage..." this sentence needs dating -- not addressed
• '"where they captured Arabanoo" a little more context on the man would be helpful' -- not addressed
• '"In March 1797" There's quite a skip in time here, suggest explaining the gap if possible' -- not addressed but perhaps this is because the sources don't cover it.
• '"its pursuer" Ships are generally thought of as female, e.g. she and her' -- still an issue; e.g. "its original", "its prize".
• 'make sure to note when he's leaving his commands as well as when he's joining them' -- I don't see any issues here but this might be one for more expert eyes.
• '"captured four Prussian vessels" Assume they weren't still in the Nore when this happened, but the location is not made obvious' -- not addressed
• 'Make sure you're noting why Ball's changes in command take place, e.g. he leaves Christian VII because the ship gets turned into a lazarette, per Winfield' -- not addressed, at least not in this case
• 'there might still be some optimistic use of Winfield, e.g. ref. #29 shouldn't be able to provide the initial returning to Britain detail' -- I can't tell if this has been addressed.

That's everything from the earlier list. One additional comment so far:

• "In early April 1809 Ball was commander of": should this be "was made commander"?

Spotchecks -- there's not much I can check as I don't have most of the sources, but I can check a few uses of Parsons:

• "In October 1787, Ball was placed in command of the armed tender HMS Supply as part of the naval escort for the ships of the First Fleet, which was a fleet of ships that transported convicts to start the first European colony in Australia. Supply's armament was increased in 1786 from its original four small 3-pounder cannons and six 1⁄2-pounder swivel guns to include four additional twelve-pounder carronades. The crew was also increased to a total of 55. Additionally, a detachment of 16 marines from the New South Wales Marine Corps, under the command of Lieutenant William Dawes, was embarked. Supply as part of the First Fleet had orders to create a penal colony in Botany Bay, New South Wales." I don't see mention of the October 1787 date in Parsons, or the description of the First Fleet's purpose, or Supply's armament, or in fact most of this.
• "On 14 February Ball on Supply sailed with Lieutenant Philip Gidley King, who was to establish a subordinate settlement on Norfolk Island. Ball discovered navigational and physical difficulties in approaching the island – challenges which were to affect future settlement there – but he managed to bring both people and supplies ashore by 6 March." Again most of this is not in Parsons.
• "In January 1808 it was noted that Ball applied for the governorship of New South Wales, but the request was turned down as no change in governor was intended at that point." Verified.

Can you check the other uses of Parsons and let me know when all the citations are fixed? Pickersgill-Cunliffe, if you're able to check any of the other sources that would be very helpful. -- Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 13:40, 25 September 2022 (UTC)

Happy to check the Winfield, Bonner-Smith, and Naval Chronicle, assuming those are the ones you're least likely to have access to. When quoting I'll emphasise in bold any parts not found in the source.

The Winfield 2007 reference checks out. Winfield 2005 below:

• "With his health recovered, he returned to duty in December 1793 and was assigned command of the sloop HMS Fury, joining Rear-Admiral John MacBride's squadron in the Downs." (Ref. #18)
• Ref. #19 is accurate but for some reason doesn't include that Ball then sailed Flora to serve in the Mediterranean
• "On 9 July, Daedalus sailed for the East Indies Station, joining the fleet of Rear-Admiral Peter Rainier" (Ref. #21)
• "With the Peace of Amiens, 25 March 1802, Ball returned to Britain" This makes the assumption that Ball was still in command of Trident, but Winfield notes three other captains taking command after Ball but before the end of 1802
• "With the death of Captain Adrian Renou in January 1805, Ball was appointed flag captain to Rear-Admiral Bartholomew Rowley in the 64-gun third rate ship of the line HMS Zealand as a guardship at the Nore." (Ref. #29)
• "In early April 1809 Ball was commander of the 80-gun third rate ship of the line HMS Gibraltar. Gibraltar joined the fleet of Admiral Lord Gambier in blockading the French at Battle of the Basque Roads." (Ref. #34) Should be "was made commander" and "at the Battle of the Basque Roads", too. Note that the source also has Ball leaving Gibraltar around June 1809
• "In April 1812 Ball became flag captain to Rear-Admiral Philip Charles Durham in the 80-gun HMS Christian VII off Texel, until December 1813, with Christian VII being removed from active service. Ball then went on half-pay in semi-retirement." (Ref. #39)

Bonner-Smith:

• "On 23 April 1778 Ball was commissioned a lieutenant." My (updated) Bonner-Smith has the date as 23 August. The rest of the citations check out

Naval Chronicle:

• "Anne Maria married Joseph Freeman Rattenbury, of Gray's Inn, on 24 July 1810." Source also spells it Ruttenbury. The other uses of the Naval Chronicle check out

If there are any other sources you'd like me to check do say. Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 16:40, 25 September 2022 (UTC)

That's plenty; thank you very much. Once Knightmare 3112 has fixed these I might ask you to take another look if that's OK. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 16:55, 25 September 2022 (UTC)

Knightmare 3112, a reminder. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 09:51, 3 October 2022 (UTC)

Failing this for inactivity; there have been no edits to the article in three weeks. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 11:01, 9 October 2022 (UTC)