Talk:His Majesty's Ship

Comment

Does anyone have examples of Commonwealth countries that actually uses the "HMS" designation. I thought only the UK uses "HMS". Samw 14:37, 8 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Since HMAS links to this page, should the link be removed? aubrey 22:32, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

That was in fact true of all the links in that list except HMCS; I have removed all of them. Foxmulder 02:57, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

When did HMTBD (His Majesty's Torpedo Boat Destroyer) go out of use? I've seen it in old Jane's books from pre-1914 for sure. --Tkinias 13:48, 21 Nov 2004 (UTC)

HMS use in monarchies

In the first paragraph of the article I wanted to clarify that the prefix (or its equivalent) isn't unique to the British navy. Someone had already made the remark about the Swedish navy, although incorrectly stating that the prefix was only used in translations to English. The prefix is in fact used in Swedish as well, and its short version (HMS) just happens to be spelled the same way.

Also, I like to think that the English Wikipedia is international, and as such I think it's relevant to point out that this prefix is not unique to the Commonwealth (avoid POV).

dsandlund 23:39, October 17 2005 (CET)

Format

Which is the correct form, "HMS" or "H.M.S."? I've seen it written both ways on the Wiki - sometimes, in the case of ship articles, with the former in the page title, and the latter used in the article text - 81.151.186.81 18:18, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

I've always seen it written "HMS" and I live in a very navy-oriented area. Birddrz 20:44, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

According to the US Navy, "H.M.S." was the early form used in previous centuries. Mauls 13:02, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Alternate use of HBMS

I'm curious why the link that was added for an alternate use of HBMS was reverted. I can't think of any rationale for its removal that doesn't involve an alternate solution (disambiguation page, etc.) HydroMagi 19:30, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Use of HBMS. The article says it was "formerly" used (implying that it is no longer), rather changing the meaning of the cited "In earlier times this was also seen as HBMS". I am not at all sure that it is obsolete, but cannot lay hands on an authoritative source one way or the other. The important point is that it was only ever intended to be used in the context of international relations, not in a purely British context - for example, letters from a British warship to a foreign authority (particularly in the case of another monarchy), or references in international treaties. I would have thought that that would still apply, but recent documents of this type are rarely in the public domain. Maybe it's tucked away in standard RN guidance on protocol. Davidships (talk) 22:38, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

HMHV / HMM

Having checked Google carefully, all references to HMHV appear to be either from Wikipedia (or mirrors) in various languages, or referring to some kind of game/story about the HMHV Surprise. Similarly for HMM, the only non-WP usage was on a page stating that the claimed usage on WP was wrong, and monitors were not named HMM in the First World War. As HMHV and HMM are not verifiable, I've removed them as per WP policy. Mauls 13:05, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

HMHV stands for "His/Her Majesty's Hired Vessel

Belize

I can't for the life of me find anything on the Belizean navy - though presumably they would also use HMBS. Anyone? --Cpt ricard (talk) 04:41, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

It would have been British Honduras then - the Belize name came after independence. Ian Dunster (talk) 13:57, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

yes, but Belize is still part of the commonwealth, so the naming convention of ships would also change. I just want something official to confirm this.--Cpt ricard (talk) 22:40, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

I suspect it would depend on whether Belize actually has any ships/patrol craft or whether they rely on the RN. It might be worth you e-mailing the Belizian authorities to find out. Ian Dunster (talk) 11:05, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

HMTS -> HMTSS

HMTS -> Don't exists
HMTSS -> His/Her Majesty's Tuvalu Surveillance Ship
--Maltrobat (talk) 14:08, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

Canadian designation

Should it be noted that Canada make joint official use of two designation derived from HMS (HMCS and NCSM) due to french/english bilingualism? --Guillaume Hébert-Jodoin (talk) 20:41, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

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Does prefixes change with the Sovereign?

For example, when HMS Vanguard was commissioned in 1946, I suppose the prefix HMS stood for "His Majesty's Ship" as in King George VI's reign. Did the full spelling change anyhow after Queen Elizabeth II ascended the throne in 1952? In a broader sense, does the full spelling of HMS change with the gender of the soverign for those ships no longer in existence?--Medalofdead (talk) 15:56, 7 September 2017 (UTC)

Requested move 8 September 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Elli (talk | contribs) 01:56, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

---

His Majesty's Ship → HMS (ship prefix) – I can't find any Wikipedia policy to support this, but it just feels wrong that an article's title changes depending on who holds an office. (Maybe someone can find some other examples and set me straight.) As for the proposed title, HMS (ship prefix) still unambiguously identifies the subject, and the first sentence of the lede would give the initialism's meaning. And there's no problems with leaving an intialism/acronym unexplained in an article's title, see FAQ, FYI, and BYOB. Brightgalrs (/braɪtˈɡæl.ərˌɛs/)^[ᴛ] 20:50, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

• Support some move. As this article isn't specific to a specific country, it shouldn't be tied to whomever the monarch of the United Kingdom is. However, I would suggest the naturally disambiguated "Ship prefixes in monarchies". BilledMammal (talk) 03:54, 9 September 2022 (UTC)
• Comment I would prefer His/Her Majesty's Ship, since "HMS" does mean other things, and has been used to mean other things on ships that are not "X Majesty's Ship" for various political, advertorial, and farcical reasons. "HMS" is used as the initialism, a foreign initialism (ie. Swedish HMS), in translation (ie. for SMS/Zr.Ms./Hr.Ms./etc) for "His/Her Majesty's Ship" -- 64.229.88.43 (talk) 05:04, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

  MOS:SLASH would recommend against that. BilledMammal (talk) 05:09, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

  MOS:SLASH suggests this is acceptable, since it is a common form for specifying dual gender words in the real world. where a slash occurs in an expression or abbreviation widely used outside Wikipedia This suggests that the words are related without specifying how, except we see exactly how they are related, because of the two gendered terms are the same except gender. MOS:SLASH supposed repalcements are the endash His–Her Majesty's Ship which is unnatural and not found in the real world "His–Her" is not found while "His/Her" is found as a pairing. The other alternative per MOS:SLASH would be His or Her Majesty's Ship or His (Her) Majesty's Ship or Her (His) Majesty's Ship. -- 64.229.88.43 (talk) 07:27, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

• Support, with preference for the disambiguator "(ship prefix)" over "(ship prefixes in monarchies)" because it's shorter. -Ljleppan (talk) 07:23, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

  In case I misunderstood the proposal w/r/t "ship prefixes in monarchies" and the idea was that the article title would just be, in full, "ship prefixes in monarchies", then I'd oppose that. Using that as the full name would sounds like a rather broad article that included information in equal manner about e.g. "RMS" and "RFA" for UK. They are, after all, ship prefixes used in monarchies. Ljleppan (talk) 16:12, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

  Good point. "Military ship prefixes in monarchies"? "His Majesties Ship" doesn't reflect the scope of the article, as Denmark has a queen. A focus on HMS also doesn't reflect the scope of the article, as it discusses prefixes that are not in that form. BilledMammal (talk) 01:59, 13 September 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose - If "Her Majesty's Ship" was good enough for the last 20 or so years, why isn't "His Majesty's Ship" good enough now? BilCat (talk) 19:11, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

• Comment I apologize for my tardiness. Brightgalrs (/braɪtˈɡæl.ərˌɛs/)^[ᴛ] 20:07, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose proposal. No objection to restoring the old title pending a discussion of that move. Srnec (talk) 20:19, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

• Comment Even I would oppose a revert to Her Majesty's Ship, how could you possibly think that is a good idea? Brightgalrs (/braɪtˈɡæl.ərˌɛs/)^[ᴛ] 08:23, 11 September 2022 (UTC)

• Well, we are having this RM, so that undiscussed move was clearly not uncontroversial!
  Whatever its title, this page must explain that HMS stands for both Her Majesty's Ship and His Majesty's Ship. So it doesn't matter which one it is. All the major RN ships of World War II were His Majesty's at the time, yet this page has always been Her Majesty's. Now, Victorian ships are not reflected in the title. In short, it just doesn't matter. This is in line with my opinions at Talk:Chairperson/Archive 4#Requested move 8 May 2019 and Talk:First lady#Requested move 1 February 2021.
  The relevant policy is WP:NATURALDIS, since the proposal is against it. Srnec (talk) 21:05, 11 September 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose, what's good for the goose is good for the gander as they say.TheCurrencyGuy (talk) 04:04, 11 September 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose It's not a bad title but it doesn't work as well as writing it out. Assuming that William and George ascend to the throne, we're not gonna need to move it back to "Her Majesty's Ship" for a LONG while. InvadingInvader (talk) 19:06, 13 September 2022 (UTC)

  @InvadingInvader: We shouldn't be titling the article based on anglocentrism; one of the relevant monarchs is female, as are several of the immediate successors. BilledMammal (talk) 00:13, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

  It's an article whose subject is anglocentric as well as to the British Empire's former colonies and history. If the subject is anglocentric, shouldn't the article reflect it? InvadingInvader (talk) 00:44, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

  The subject isn't; the article also covers six other countries, including four with current monarchies. BilledMammal (talk) 00:49, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

  Of the non commonwealth countries, only Sweden uses the exact prefix HMS. Denmark uses HDMS, SMS for Germany, HNLMS for the Netherlands, etc. They all translate to His or Her Majesty's ship in English, with the most addition being a country name. And even if the UK gets another Queen Regent, we can always just move it when one monarch dies and the other ascends to the throne, or even just retitle the article as His or Her Majesty's Ship. InvadingInvader (talk) 01:08, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

  Currently, the Danish one translates to "Her Majesty's Ship", which is why the current title is inaccurate and anglocentric. BilledMammal (talk) 01:13, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

  Inaccurate, maybe, but we could just do His or Her Majesty's Ship. However, of the current monarchies listed here, Sweden has His, Norway has His, the Netherlands have His. Again though, if the pronoun in the title REALLY is a problem, just change the title to His or Her Majesty's Ship. InvadingInvader (talk) 04:04, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

  The article is trying to be both about the English language term used in the Commonwealth and about the general use by other monarchies whose terms in their own language translate the same in English. It reads like it started out as one and was slowly expanded until it also covered the other, which is probably exactly what happened. BilCat (talk) 00:51, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose. Solution in search of a problem. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:03, 14 September 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose. A solution in search of a problem. The beauty of an online encyclopedia is that we can easily change article titles such as this whenever we need to. Rreagan007 (talk) 19:32, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.