Talk:High Hopes (Tim Scott McConnell song)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

No consensus to move as proposed. bd2412 T 20:35, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

High Hopes (Bruce Springsteen song) → High Hopes (Tim Scott McConnell song) – Songs are supposed to be named for the original artists, aren't they? I don't see a specific mention of this at WP:NCM, but that's our usual practice, even if a cover version becomes more notable. --BDD (talk) 23:30, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

• Tentative support - this is also my understanding of practice, and I am also surprised it isn't documented at WP:NCM. Declare that BDD's question is of particular interest to me in relation to Lucky Star (Gene Vincent song) (currently at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Lucky Star (Gene Vincent song)). In the case of Lucky Star (Gene Vincent song) it was first recorded on an album as Lucky Star (Ricky Nelson song), but in print sources is better known as Gene Vincent's last single for Capitol. In ictu oculi (talk) 03:34, 23 November 2013 (UTC)

• Songs aren't always named for the original artists (e.g. "Wild Thing" [The Troggs song]) and songs before the recorded music era are rarely named for artists. The disambiguator should be the term most useful to readers even if it is not "true" to the first performer so the lack of a specific mention of this at WP:NCM is fine. —  AjaxSmack  04:14, 23 November 2013 (UTC)

• somewhat Oppose - There has been an unofficial practice of using the original artist, but we are not bound by it and in this situation I think we should ignore that practice. I think the move would be a disservice to the reader and make the article more difficult to find; especially from external searches such as google. --Rushton2010 (talk) 14:02, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
• Support per nom. My reasons for supporting are several

1. That it keeps the time line.
2. That Springsteen obvious learnt the song from McConnell.
3. That McConnell wrote the song, and more than anybody else, this is McConnell's song.
4. That using this criteria avoid 1000s of edit wars over who is more notable!
5. There have been precedents to support this view, I can do the searches if you all require. Cheers. --Richhoncho (talk) 14:17, 23 November 2013 (UTC)

• Support as per longstanding WP precedent and I also suggest a change to WP:NCM to follow along with this. I'll drop them a line. Red Slash 21:46, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
  • As I mentioned above, songs are usually but not always named for original performers. Codifying this practice would, for example, force a move of War (Edwin Starr song) to War (The Temptations song), hardly helpful for readers seeking this iconic hit. —  AjaxSmack  03:15, 24 November 2013 (UTC)

• Oppose without further evidence that the song is notable as a McConnell song. Disambiguators are navigation aids, and should not be editorials on the "correct" identity of a song or the result of a single one-size-fits-all policy. Accordingly, a number of songs in the recorded music era are disambiguated by the performer of the most notable version, not the first released version. These include "Amen" (The Impressions song), "Bad Girl" (Rihanna song), "Busted" (Johnny Cash song), "Crazy in Love" (Kim Carnes song), "Don't Leave Me This Way" (Tina Turner song), "Hanky Panky" (Tommy James and the Shondells song), "It's My Party" (Lesley Gore song), "Missing You" (Case song), "Rudy" (Cher song), "Solitaire" (Laura Branigan song), "War" (Edwin Starr song), and "Wild Thing" (The Troggs song) to name a few.

Some songs in the recorded music era are disambiguated in other ways depending on how their notability derives, such as by year ("In the Still of the Night" [1956 song]), song genre ("When I'm Gone" [Motown song], "Put Yourself in My Place" [Motown song]), songwriters when there are numerous charted versions ("Walk On By" [Burt Bacharach and Hal David song] with over 10 charted versions), songwriters who are more notable than the performers (I'm in Love [Lennon–McCartney song])

While some of these are questionable ("Crazy" [Willie Nelson song] [which is still far more associated with Patsy Cline than Nelson], "Somewhere Out There" [James Horner song], etc.), most of these disambiguator choices are the best to direct a general audience to the right place.

Wikipedia should not be a slave to a single rule in this case. The disambiguator should be the phrase that best gets readers to where they want to go. —  AjaxSmack  20:20, 29 November 2013 (UTC)

Comment only. With regards to Crazy and Somewhere Out There above, both are disambiguated by the songwriter, as proposed by this RM. Cheers. --Richhoncho (talk) 23:10, 13 December 2013 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

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There is something fundamentally wrong with this article!

3 Lines for the original author and singer of the son and 22 lines for a cover version that brought it back to the charts. It even begins by describing the Cover version and relegating the original artist to songwriter in the sidebar.

I think it should be done like "The Power of Love" (Jennifer Rush song) 80.208.71.137 (talk) 18:30, 9 January 2023 (UTC)