Talk:High speed trains of the United Kingdom

Merge pages.

See British Rail Class 43 (HST). I think much of the specific information about Class 43 HSTs on this page should appear only on British Rail Class 43 (HST). This page, in my mind, is more appropriate for general information and history of APT, Class 43 (IC 125) and Classes 91 and 82 (IC 225). Please reply with your responses. Nickg1980

As regards liveries, fGW are in the middle of Yet Another Rebrand, which will see what I think might be the sixth livery they've borne since they took over from the original Great Western Trains (not to be confused with the Great Western Railway). UIVMM, none of the other companies comes close (GNER with 2, MML with 2, Virgin with 1 - possibly 2 if any were done out Voyager-style). In particular, we don't need to list all the companies in that statement only to list them all again in the very next line. 81.104.165.184 23:37, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Yes i know you are yet another annoying fGWR but that still doesn't mean you can impose your views and dismiss what is more appropriate and correct for an article relating to the HSt as a hole rather than a particular TOC. the fGWR articles are there to maintain the corporate image and propaganda. The several, consecutive and extremely unesthetic liveries that the First machine apply to their rolling stock does not have priority over other TOCs as explained in my first edit. your views seem to be extremely narrow minded and you are now trolling through Wikipedia changing articles to your own model. I hope you will refrain from doing so in the future, register so we can better appreciate your contributions in the future. Maybe not listing some more fGWr would avoid this repeat you've so clearly pointed out. Regards, Captain scarlet 23:45, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Yet again, in large type since you missed it, the full list of TOCs is in the very next line, and does not need to be repeated above. 81.104.165.184 00:15, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

I have reverted once again your vandalism and will no longer participate in petty discussions with you, you have a warning message on your talk page. Each and every of your talk contributions are contradictory and I'm afraid you make little sence. Regards, Captain scarlet 06:13, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Yet again, may I direct you to WP:VAND#What vandalism is not, where you will find some things that state clearly what isn't vandalism. Please identify some clauses from the list above that to justify your accusation. Reverting your reinsertion of redundant information for now. 81.104.165.184 01:06, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Though to be fair the first change followed the purchase of the independant Great Western by First Group, most of the modifications to the Barbie colours were to the white areas on the powercars as they were proving impossible to keep clean, you will notice that MML paint their powercars dark for the same reason. The trailers AFAICT have only carried the one version of barbie. Enotayokel 08:54, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

GWR's Merlin livery was actually applied onto some mk3s, then became the fag packets with the golden line traversing the green band. I believe all the remaing executive liveried mk3s were vyniled into barbie in one step. I spose the next livery is barbi² with the pink waves. And yeh, light rolling stock does look dirty pretty quickly, see the ghost 156... Captain scarlet 09:17, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

The full sequence of coach liveries since privatisation is GWT Merlin (imho the best), FGW fag packet, FGW barbie and now the newest FGW which is officially "dynamic lines" but I've seen called "Barbie2", "neon", "nightclub" and "duracel" (I don't know how that one has come about). Thryduulf 09:37, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

I'd tend to agree with Thryduulf, GWT/GWR was one of if not the best of the HST liveries. The new MM livery gets close to it with a harsh yet pleasing dark green/white contrast. The Merlin logo was also rather fetching, so was Bambi. Even though Thryduulf's livery timeline is correct, not all the coaches bore each livery. Captain scarlet 09:51, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

And interestingly the 'new' Mark 3 seated stock for the sleeper has been vinyled into 'Fag Packet'. Only the HSTs are getting the wavylines (which I quite like) with the DMUs getting a new livery based on the Wessex place names (will be posting that to the FGW article). Enotayokel 13:10, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

The Wessex livery (Which First seems to be keeping) is a very good one too. Promoting local towns and tourist places is a break in the norm of bland and uniform liveries. I have side shot of a (then) Wessex 150 with Southampton vinyl if needed.

This is a official mock up of the new DMU livery Page 6 (PDF), not quite as good as the old Wessex but certainly better looking then the Barbie 158 Enotayokel 13:49, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Bit dissapointing don't you think. It's essentially blue and pink again with tiny town names in pink ! Wikipedia deserves a not pink photo of one of their DMUs ;) Captain scarlet 14:01, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

That may be, but at least they didn't persist with [1] - At least common sense has pervailed and the vinyl has been removed from over the windows. All I can say is eugh! Enotayokel 14:09, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Don't frighten me like that ! Already have buses like that... There's already that silly blue band on TPE 158s. And now now them silly 185s are coming. Thank goodness there are other TOCs. Off topic really, but good to get off one's chest. It's 1600, I can leave work now. Captain scarlet 14:58, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

I wouldn't count on it, press reports today suggest a First/NatExp merger is a strong possibility, maybe then they'll finally get their hands on ONE! (now that is a colourscheme I don't like). The 185's are supposed to be brilliant for passenger comfort, but it was just 158's last weekend (was traveling to Whitby) so didn't get to sample one. I was hoping for Stagecoach to get Greater Western (if any of my posting seem FGWcentric it is because they and SWT are my local operators) Enotayokel 15:29, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

I pity you for having on First and SWT as a choice of train operator... SWT ditched the most confortable trains in Britain (slammers) for the elast (desastros and co), then there is First and their inaptitude to do anything right... I thank the heavens for only having TPE operated by First and being able to avoid them and use Central or Virgin: pffeew. Most posts concerning fGWR and First in general seem very PoV and biased so I tend to consider them lightly. I had the pleasure (yes 158s are bliss) of doing my daily travelling by 158 last weke whilst the car was in for repairs and I will long for the days of confortable notmolded seat travelling (go Airline). I even enjoyed a nodding donkey with benches a couple of weeks ago. If my posts seem anti First it's because It is hard for me to consider them seriously, I apologise. Captain scarlet 18:51, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

First aren't too bad in this area to be honest, at least on intercity services (Stagecoach are the local BusCo), they've only been running local services for a month, so haven't had much change to improve/f**k up on Wessex yet Enotayokel 21:10, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Title

Shouldn't this be retitled "High speed train" to conform with the manual of style? (perhaps with "British" in brackets, or merged with the general article as a subsection.) Haven't we lost a lot of info on its history and development? Perhaps this should be added to the Class 43 article. Also Brits, both the public and railway people, refer to the Clasa 43/Mk 3 combo specifically as the "High Speed Train" which is the heading which readers are going to look for. The article gives the impression that the IC225 was a replacement for it. It was not. The IC225 replaced earlier electric locos on electrified lines. Chevin 08:48, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Support rename. This page was originally for the IC125 and then people started adding stuff on APT and IC225 whilst another page for IC125 (and also pages for Class 43 and Mk3coaches also existed). As per Talk:British Rail Class 43 (HST) I proposed that the pages be merged or reorganised. After 7 days of consultation there were two responses, both agreeing with my proposal. Last night, I reorganised the above pages, with High Speed Train being about high speed trains in the UK in general. In the reorganisation, I tried not to delete any information, but did move information between pages to make this most relevant. I would support a rename to "High speed trains" or "High speed trains in the UK", etc. Nickg1980 09:46, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Replacement

To be pedantic, the IC225 could not have replaced the IC125 as it was electric. What it replaced was the Class 89. GNER still need the HST for its nom electrified routes and it is on these that it is being replaced by spam cans. (I can be POV in the discussion. I think) Chevin 08:49, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

IC225 sets did replace IC125s on the ECML as they were introduced at the same time as electrification of the line. The Class 89 was a one-off prototype, while it was used by GNER for passenger services for a short time it cannot be considered to have either replaced or been replaced by anything. mallardtheduck (talk) 19:54, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

Others

"More recent trains which could be classed as high speed trains include:" Pendolino?

Done. (Yes POV is allowed etc in discussion) Simply south 16:09, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:High speed trains of the United Kingdom/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

With only one reference on the page, this cannot continue to hold B status. I am therfore dropping it down to C status, however with significant improvements to referencing (should not be too difficult to get 30 or 30 or so, just use google and some human intution, works for me) it should come back to a quality level worthy of a B.81.111.115.63 (talk) 14:00, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Last edited at 14:00, 20 May 2009 (UTC). Substituted at 17:54, 29 April 2016 (UTC)