Talk:Highway 1 (Israel–Palestine)

Materials

Sources which I haven't had time to go over:

• http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-3887618,00.html
• http://www.globes.co.il/serveen/globes/docview.asp?did=1000751677&fid=1724
• http://www.globes.co.il/serveen/globes/docview.asp?did=1000756977&fid=1725

—Ynhockey ^(Talk) 01:13, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Meaning

Recently, the edits which I made in the 'Meaning' column were undid. What is the purpose of a 'Meaning' column? What does 'Meaning' mean? If the junction and the town next to it have the same name, it is pretty obvious that the junction was 'named after the location' and not the other way around.

On the Hebrew version of this page, there is no column for 'Meaning', nor is there any need for one. But this is the English language page with Hebrew names transliterated into the Latin alphabet. So what is the Meaning? To write 'named after location', when the location appears right there in the next column labled 'Location' is redundant.

I undid the undo of my edits. I don't wish for this to become a tug-of-war. I hope we can decide what the logical purpose of the 'Meaning' column should be. I, for one, think it should give more information to browsers who do not understand Hebrew.

When friends come to Israel, I always offer to take them sightseeing. They often ask the meaning of place names, especially while driving on the highway. Telling them that a junction is named for the nearby town tells them nothing. Telling them a junction with the same name as a nearby town is named for 'Moses Montefiore' who founded the town or the 'Sorek Stream' which means the stream of the choice vine enhances the experience. The wikipedia page should give as much 'meaningful information as possible. (There's that word 'meaning' again!) Atefrat (talk) 11:28, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

The purpose of the column is to clarify why each junction was named the way it was. Literal translations are pointless because they say nothing about the junction itself. However, most do say something about the relevant localities, as you correctly pointed out, which is why in articles for localities, we do include literal transliterations.

The fact that many junctions were named after the nearby location is neither redundant nor obvious. For example, some junctions are unofficially named after former Arab villages (Qastina, Masmiyya)—places that no longer exist. It might also not be so obvious to foreigners that a junction at the entrance of a small town or village is usually named after it.

I don't think we should take any examples from the Hebrew Wikipedia.

—Ynhockey ^(Talk) 18:05, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

You say: "The purpose of the column is to clarify why each junction was named the way it was". The heading of the column is not 'why junction was named thusly'. The column heading is 'Meaning'. If the junction was named after a town whose meaning is 'whatever', the reader has to click on the town and read ANOTHER article to discover the meaning of the junction.

If the junction is named after a place that no longer exists, fine, let's have the meaning right there in the meaning column and link it to the former town, eg., [ [Qastina|Chestnut] ] for Qastina junction or [ [Khulda|The Perpetual] ] for Hulda junction.

You say: "...not be so obvious to foreigners that a junction at the entrance of a small town or village is usually named after it" Again, the thing most interesting to someone (Israeli or tourist) driving down a highway upon seeing the name of a junction is not whether it was named after the neighboring town, but rather, "what is the meaning of the Hebrew (or Arabic) name?". Perhaps we could write in < small > 'named after location' AND then < br /> 'meaning'

I think that you would agree that having a colum with nothing but 'named after location' entries gives minimal information. There must be some way to "shape" the information in this column to give maximum (and most interesting) information (without making the column unwieldy).Atefrat (talk) 07:16, 17 June 2011 (UTC)

Sorry for the late reply.

What you say is exactly the reason why we have main articles for these places. Wikipedia is not a travel guide. Its purpose is to give encyclopedic information on the relevant subject, not help people find random trivia about it. The main articles are perfectly suitable for the encyclopedic information, where it is possible to elaborate on the etymology of the place in a way that makes sense. It is not helpful to include a literal meaning. —Ynhockey ^(Talk) 10:16, 25 June 2011 (UTC)

I don't agree that it's not helpful to include a literal meaning. Keep in mind that you and I are fluent Hebrew speakers. WE know the meaning of the name. 'Meaning' is, after all, the heading of the column. Either we disregard the column's title or we change the column's title to suit some alternate purpose disregarding people who do not understand Hebrew.

On a slightly different matter, if you look at the Hebrew version of the page כביש 1 a user named בו-ציוןממ created some kick-a*s diagrams of the major interchanges. Take a look. I would like to put them on the English page in the column 'Type' (alongside the current blue icons in the column) I tried putting them in unsuccessfully. I suspect that the diagrams are not part of Wikimedia Commons but are only available for Hebrew Wiki. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Atefrat (talk • contribs) 04:55, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

Junction maps

Ben-TzionMM (משתמש:בן-ציוןממ) created wonderful maps for the major junctions for the Hebrew wikipedia version of this article. He published them with a share and attribute license (2.5). I have uploaded them to commons and placed them in this English version of Highway 1. They appear awfully small, but clicking on them will give a full-size view. --@Efrat (talk) 07:20, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the improvements on this page, Atefrat. By the way, I noticed the above discussion regarding the "meaning" of the road names. This column is problematic: The words are misspelled and many of the translations are wrong. I am in favor of removing it.--Geewhiz (talk) 09:43, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

"misspelled and ... wrong"? Are we talking about the same page? Which are misspelled and which tranlations are wrong? Are you just yanking my chain, GB? lol

PS. I sent you an e-mail. --@Efrat (talk) 10:30, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

For starters: Mountaiside of Red, which is not only spelled incorrectly but quite funny as a translation. Talk about juicy information...Fruitful? Berry? The Olive? Choice Vine? Don't take it the wrong way (pun intended LOL), but this happens to be an article about a highway, not a volume of poetry.--Geewhiz (talk) 15:18, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

OK, 1 spelling mistake? Any others? Spelling can be fixed. As for the cockamamie translations, they are not as ludicrous as they may seem. First, whenever I greet visitors from Hu'l, they want to know what the names mean. (Not everyone is blessed like us to understand Hebrew.) More to the point, I try to tweek the definitions to give more than just the dictionary definition by linking the definition to its true target. Look at Tzomet Ramat Shlomo. The location links to the neighborhood, but the translation, Solomon's Hill, links to the person for whom it is named after. As for Berry, ultimately I would like it to link to an article about the Anabe Stream (when it is created and which will give an historical reason for its name.) You may want to edit the definitions or change the link target. But eliminating the entire column (which, by the way, has existed on Israeli Highway articles long before I started editing wikipedia) is just denying desired information to a very large group of non-Hebrew speaking people. --@Efrat (talk) 06:14, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

As I've stated on several occasions regarding this issue, I fully agree with Gilabrand. The "translations" are largely incorrect or irrelevant. Most of the junctions were simply named for their locations, and if you click on the location's article you can get a more in-depth etymology which actually clarifies the meaning. —Ynhockey ^(Talk) 15:29, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

YH, GB, you're both speaking from the point of view of bilingual speakers. This is after all, English Wikipedia. The translations are relevant to people who don't have any Hebrew to fall back on. If you think the translations are incorrect, edit them. I am sure there is room for improvement. --@Efrat (talk) 08:31, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

New Junctions

A lot of new construction east of Jerusalem: highway widening and new junctions which, at the time of this edit, still do not appear on Google/Walla/Mapa Sattelite Views. I have added them. I also recently drove eastbound from Tel Aviv to Alon Junction. My passenger carefully noted the distances along the way. (My odometer is accurate based on other roads.) I discovered significant discrepancies in the list. The total was 77.3 km, not 75.5 as appears in the list. I will complete the trip between Alon Junction and Beit HaArava Junction and make corrections. I suspect the road is longer that we thought it was. --@Efrat (talk) 10:51, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

OK, distances from Tel Aviv's Kibbutz Guluyot Interchange to Alon Junction have been checked a second time and corrected in list. Distances from Alon Junction eastward to the end of Highway 1 have not been checked for accuracy. --@Efrat (talk) 12:55, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

Junctions from one direction only

I noticed a problem in the designation of junctions accessed from only one side of the highway. Eg., "Kiryat Yearim Interchange" is only accessible from Highway 1 westbound. The exit is to Route 425 East. Placing the words (westbound only) under the local road (Route 425) doesn't make sense. (Westbound only) applies to the junction, not to the direction of the local road at the junction. I made adjustments to make more sense.

Route description

I have added a prose Route Description as per WikiProject Highways in the hopes of getting this article out of "Start Class". Verifiable references are implicitly provided by the coordinates leading to any number of maps and sattelite views making WP:NOR inapplicable. I also hope to reorganize parts of the rest of the article (without removing material - probably adding) to bring it up to standards. --@Efrat (talk) 09:10, 28 January 2013 (UTC)

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A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:

• ISR-HW20.png

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Commons files used on this page have been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons files used on this page have been nominated for deletion:

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