Talk:History of surgery

Physician/Surgeon Divide

The history of surgery section needs substantial work; in particular, the social divide that existed between surgeons and physicians needs elaboration. How surgery became a vital, integrated part of medicine, as opposed to a technical barber's skill, is important and of interest. Glacialfury (talk) 17:54, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

Surgery instruments in Roman Empire.

Surgery in the Roman world is not even mentioned.

I give you some references, I think you can find almost all the tools we use today. They seem instruments of the XVIII century.

http://www.shopping24.ilsole24ore.com/sh4/catalog/Product.jsp?PRODID=SH246088597

http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicina_romana

==Needs a part 2 - you stop just when it starts taking off.

http://www.romanoimpero.com/2009/06/strumenti-chirurgici.html

http://www.museicomunalirimini.it/musei/museo_citta/domus_museo_citta/scavi_domus/pagina5.html

http://www.comune.rimini.it/servizi/citta/monumenti/pagina3.html

The example are very very numerous there are also instruments that rasemble Swiss boxcutters for soldiers.

--84.222.77.50 (talk) 08:05, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

Ligatures

I've made a series of reverts to the recent Eurocentric POV edits in the ligatures section:

• Edit that disputed the father of surgery claim. Plenty of references support that.
• Edit that claimed it's pointless to include Abu al-Qasim al-Zahrawi (of course, Ambroise Paré's inclusion is never questioned).
• Edit that implied Al-Zahrawi borrowed the idea from Galen when no reference is provided.
• Edit that removed the following cited statement: "The invention of the ligatures is widely believed to have originated with Abulcasis yet the same editor had no qualms about keeping the bit on Ambroise Paré that says "although the ligature has commonly been attributed to Ambroise Paré".

So both scholars were preceded by Galen as it seems, but apparently only Paré (the White man) is worthy of mention here and the editor maintains the attribution of the invention to him. For this editor, the addition of Galen's entry is sufficient grounds to remove Abulcasis' "widely believed" statement, but not sufficient to remove Paré's "commonly been attributed" statement.

Make no mistake about it, these were clearly disingenuous attempts to undermine the contributions of non-European scholars. Al-Andalusi (talk) 23:35, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

• That al-Zarawi is sometimes styled as "Father of surgery" is not disputed the please provide from the source; A, Martín-Araguz; Bustamante-Martínez, C, Fernández-Armayor Ajo, V, Moreno-Martínez, JM (2002). "Neuroscience in Al Andalus and its influence on medieval scholastic medicine". Revista de Neurología 34 (9): 877–92. PMID 12134355. Who says and why they say al-Zahrawi should be considered the father of surgery. If you are citing from the abstract you need to say so.
• After Ambroise Paré "everyone" does it his way. That is the rejection of cuatery and the use of ligatures for heomostasis in amputations.
• You have argued invention/transmission before [1] now, as then, the burden is on you to provide a WP:RS
• The invention of the ligatures is widely believed to have originated with Abulcasis[2] is not supported by the source. It is so far from what the source says that I must point out that you've done this before [3] and remind you that you are responsible for actually reading the sources you cite.

User Al-Andalusi is well aware of the role of Paul of Aegina you have used this source before: al-Zahrāwī, Abū al-Qāsim Khalaf ibn ʻAbbās (1973). مقالة في العمل باليد: A Definitive Edition of the Arabic Text. University of California Press. ISBN 9780520015326. Retrieved 1 December 2012. you have also used: Pormann, Peter E.; Savage-Smith, Emilie (2007). Medieval Islamic Medicine. Edinburgh University Press. ISBN 0-7486-2066-4 what is new or unique to "Islamic medicine" will be found WP:RS. J8079s (talk) 18:14, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

Edwin Smith Papyrus (1,600 BC)??? This shows wiki edits are just being abused daily

"(around the 17th century BC)"? "among the earliest dating from the 1600 BCE "?

what human in history was called Edwin smith that lived 1,600 years before the birth of christ? ohhh dear!!92.236.96.38 (talk) 16:34, 12 September 2014 (UTC)apples

It's called the Edwin Smith Papyrus because he was an 19th century owner of the papyrus. Many papyri are named after cities, institutions, or individuals who owned them. Naming them after the places they're found or by the author is generally meaningless, as it does not distinguish between dozens of papyri typically found in one place, or surviving from one author. High-storian (talk) 02:45, 30 December 2015 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on History of surgery. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20131201231218/http://www.medicine.mcgill.ca/MJM/issues/v08n01/crossroads/hong.pdf to http://www.medicine.mcgill.ca/MJM/issues/v08n01/crossroads/hong.pdf

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 12:50, 3 April 2017 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on History of surgery. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20131026210110/http://library.uthscsa.edu/2010/12/john-hunter-%E2%80%9Cthe-father-of-scientific-surgery%E2%80%9D-resources-from-the-collection-of-the-p-i-nixon-library/ to http://library.uthscsa.edu/2010/12/john-hunter-%E2%80%9Cthe-father-of-scientific-surgery%E2%80%9D-resources-from-the-collection-of-the-p-i-nixon-library/
• Added archive https://archive.is/20131122153526/http://ihm.nlm.nih.gov/images/B26992 to http://ihm.nlm.nih.gov/images/B26992

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 02:26, 26 October 2017 (UTC)

First Surgery

The first ever surgery was performed by GOD when he put Adam in a deep sleep, opened him up and took one of his ribs and created Eve — Preceding unsigned comment added by Staycool72 (talk • contribs) 07:13, 14 November 2017 (UTC)

We are sorry that we cannot put any religious quotation here in Wikipedia without any actual proof. Obiwana (talk) 21:05, 12 December 2022 (UTC)

Pompeii

Just sharing a historical article on Pompeian Surgery from 20-may-1882 in Scientific American
https://books.google.com/books?id=zoE9AQAAIAAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q=Charles%20Darwin&f=false
20may1882,pp312
SloppyTots (talk) 23:14, 3 June 2021 (UTC)

We are trying to make a new page about it Obiwana (talk) 12:24, 13 December 2022 (UTC)

Surgery

हिस्ट्री ऑफ सर्जरी 2405:204:1381:CD33:EDA4:6124:EFB8:D9DB (talk) 05:28, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

Bunyuro-Kitara Kingdom

The article makes multiple mentions of this kingdom and its contributions to anesthesia and Caesarian sections. These mentions are not cited in text and I could only find a single article which mentions this. https://www.cambridge.org/core/services/aop-cambridge-core/content/view/AB8D758D3B7DDB35D318E4F4E7855214/S0025727300024248a.pdf/the-development-of-scientific-medicine-in-the-african-kingdom-of-bunyoro-kitara.pdf 174.61.247.213 (talk) 04:57, 29 August 2022 (UTC)

Deal we are now going to make a new article from it. Obiwana (talk) 19:19, 12 December 2022 (UTC)

Surgery in precolumbian america

Please stop deleting the reference and article if there is any copyright issues then just inform me Obiwana (talk) 15:54, 12 December 2022 (UTC)

Africans and bacterial infections

"African surgeons' knowledge about bacterial infections." Microorganism were discovered in 19th century. Africans new nothing about it, they simply had some sanitising practices. Maybe it is time to correct the text so it reflects reality better. 46.97.168.120 (talk) 20:40, 3 December 2023 (UTC)