Talk:Hole (band)/GA2

GA Review

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Reviewer: Mike Christie (talk · contribs) 11:44, 18 January 2018 (UTC)

I'll review this. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 11:44, 18 January 2018 (UTC)

• There are a couple of harv errors; you can see them by installing this script.
• Footnote 37 is a dead link.
• Footnote 102 isn't a source, it's just text, so it needs a source. You might consider making this a note rather than a footnote.
• Saying that a fairly common phrase is a reference to Kipling needs an external source that draws the connection; without that this would be original research.
• What makes the following sources reliable?
  • InSound
  • Mudhoney
  • Pameledesbarres.com
  • The Weekly World News
  • Tidal.com
  • prefixmag.com
  • alternativenation.net
  • punkglobe.com
  • thesnipenews.com
  • ultimate-guitar.com (this seems to be just a forum post)
  • Interview Magazine -- this seems to be a print source, but no publication data is given so I can't tell if it's reliable
  • femalefirst.co.uk
  • SoundProof Magazine -- same comments as for Interview Magazine.
  • drownedinsound.com

That's just from checking the footnotes and sources. I'll wait for you to address these before going back through the article. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 01:25, 19 January 2018 (UTC)

@Mike Christie: I'm working on replacing/excising some of the dubious references you point out (some of which I wasn't entirely aware of)—as far as the Tidal.com reference, that one is a link to an interview with Patty Schemel (the domain is merely Tidal.com, as they are the web host of the podcast program). I will prune the other iffy ones in short order and fix the dead footnotes. --Drown Soda (talk) 06:44, 22 January 2018 (UTC)

Drown Soda: Just checking in; are you still working on this, or are you ready for me to take another look at the article? Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 12:23, 29 January 2018 (UTC)

@Mike Christie: I believe I've addressed the reference concerns you've listed above by replacing them with more reputable ones. Let me know if I have missed one. --Drown Soda (talk) 04:35, 30 January 2018 (UTC)

Drown Soda: I've struck the ones that have been removed, and added one; do you want to do another pass and remove or justify the remaining ones? Again I'm not saying they're unreliable, just that I need to see the justification. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 02:20, 1 February 2018 (UTC)

Reading through; please revert my copyedits if I make a mess of anything.

• In April 1992, drummer Patty Schemel was recruited after an audition in Los Angeles, but the band spent the rest of the year without a consistent bassist: uncited, and doesn't seem to make sense; if Schemel was recruited, why didn't they have a consistent bassist?
• furious rumors circulated: why "furious"? Do you mean the people who circulated the rumors were furious?
• I would link Corgan and explain who he is on first mention.
• The album charted incredibly well: this is hyperbole; peaking at #9 is a good but not astonishing performance. I'd make this just "The album peaked at..."
• There are uncited sentences at the end of the 1999-2002 section.
• Love's voice, which had been noticeably raspier: suggest "become" instead of "been".
• There are a couple of uncited sentences in the 2009-2013 section.
• with Larkin, Dailey, and Lipps as her backing band: Dailey has not been mentioned to this point, so a couple of words about him, and his full name, would be better.
• In an interview with the September 2014 issue of Paper, Love stated that a reunion of the band in 2015 was likely: since it didn't happen, is this really worth mentioning?
• There's an uncited sentence in "Composition".
• For GA I think it's OK to mention Tanya Grae's poem, but at FAC I think we'd need to show that a third party found it notable. There are a lot of cultural references to Love and Hole; we should use secondary sources to determine which ones to mention.
• There are three harv errors: footnotes 22 and 133 don't link to citations; and Strong & Peel in the "Works cited" list has no footnote linking to it.

That's everything I can see. The article is in very good shape overall. Once these are addressed, and the remaining sources on the list above are agreed to be reliable, or are removed, I'll promote the article to GA. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 03:00, 2 February 2018 (UTC)

Drown Soda: just realized I didn't ping you when I added these notes. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 16:23, 4 February 2018 (UTC)

@Mike Christie: thank you very much—I will address these prose concerns and the references (incl. some sort of rationale and/or replacement) later this evening. --Drown Soda (talk) 20:28, 4 February 2018 (UTC)

Mike_Christie: I believe I've addressed everything at this point. I've fixed the dead references and also looked over your edits, which are perfectly sensible. I also added citations to the unreferenced sentences you mention. As far as providing a rationale for the outstanding references:

• I've removed the Alternative Nation source—while I do believe the interview with Erlandson is legitimate, the site itself is not necessarily credible, and errs more on the side of "fanzine" I think.
• The Tidal.com reference is legitimate in the sense that it is the publisher of the podcast interview with Patty Schemel. You can see more about Tidal at their Wiki article to get a sense of what it is as an enterprise.
• Interview is a print source that also has online publication, archives and web issues of past articles. The magazine was founded by Andy Warhol and British journalist John Wilcock in the late-sixties, and has been a pop-culture mainstay for many years. I will include the ISSN# in the reference for further documentation purposes.
• Drowned in Sound is a web-magazine. They have been publishing online material since 2000 and from what I can tell are a reputable publication. I don't know if this makes a difference or not, but they are catalogued with WorldCat, and are commonly used as references for publications like NME and the like.

Let me know if I've overlooked something, and thank you again. --Drown Soda (talk) 00:04, 5 February 2018 (UTC)

Drown Soda:The source and reference issues all look fine, but it doesn't look as if you've addressed the list of prose issues above? Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 00:19, 5 February 2018 (UTC)

Mike Christie oy vey, I guess my edit wasn't saved. Should be there now. Sorry about that. I also found a bare URL citation while skimming through which I converted into a full one. I fixed the points above, though the comment about the group not having a bassist after hiring Schemel is true—as shown in the Hit So Hard documentary, the group had no bass player for around a year, and it was during this time that Love, Schemel, and Erlandson began to write songs together. --Drown Soda (talk) 01:20, 5 February 2018 (UTC)

Drown Soda: I've struck some, but it looks like you missed a couple? I haven't struck the poem one but that's up to you; it's not an issue for GA. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 03:39, 5 February 2018 (UTC)

Mike Christie, I see the uncited sentence in Composition regarding the acoustic guitar/melodies, which I've added a reference for, but I'm not seeing another--was that the sentence? As far as the poem goes, I'm going to elect to cut it—I didn't add that information and it seems too tangential/too much of a fringe-reference to warrant so much space. --Drown Soda (talk) 03:46, 5 February 2018 (UTC)

I'll add {{cn}}s for the uncited sentences; it's quicker than saying where they are. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 03:52, 5 February 2018 (UTC)

Done. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 03:54, 5 February 2018 (UTC)

Drown Soda: adding a ping, just in case. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 00:10, 6 February 2018 (UTC)

@Mike Christie: addressed these un-cited areas; thanks for the s—it was much easier to navigate that way. --Drown Soda (talk) 01:04, 6 February 2018 (UTC)

Looks good. Passing. N.B. Legobot's notice on your talk page may say it failed, but that's just a bug in Legobot; it sometimes does that when there's a prior failed GA. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 01:21, 6 February 2018 (UTC)