Talk:Holmium/GA1

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Reviewer: Amitchell125 (talk · contribs) 21:02, 17 July 2023 (UTC)

Hey Amitchell, I've recently been feeling unwell. You are welcome to place comments on the review, but there might be a long delay before I respond to them. ¹⁴¹Pr {contribs} 18:51, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

Happy to review the article. AM

Review comments

Initial comments on the references

(see MOS:REFERENCES for information regarding these comments)

The following is based on this version of the article. The citation method chosen for this article needs to be more consistently applied:

• There is a Bibliography section, but this only lists two books. Refs 6, 9. 10, 11, 21, 25, 26, 28, 29, 30, and 35 are also books, and so for consistency should also be listed in the bibliography. Ref 56 is unnecessarily listed in both sections.

I have added those books to the bibliography. Is that what you mean? Also, can you explain to me what Ref 56 is unnecessarily listed in both sections means? ¹⁴¹Pr {contribs} 08:00, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

The Ref 56 (Emsley) issue is now sorted. However you still have a mixture of different citation styles, e.g., Ref 16 (Emsley, John (2011). Nature's Building Blocks. p. 226.) is a short quote, and Ref 8 (Cullity, B. D.; Graham, C. D. (2011). Introduction to Magnetic Materials. John Wiley & Sons. ISBN 978-1-118-21149-6) is a full citation, but without a page number. Amitchell125 (talk) 13:27, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

 Done: made them short quotes. ¹⁴¹Pr {contribs} 15:01, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

• Is the date for Ref 17 correct? A different date is given in the Bib section.

They seem to be different books, although I'm not sure. ¹⁴¹Pr {contribs} 16:50, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

They are different editions of the same book—information in 2011 (p.225) lines up with the text in 2001 (p.181). Both books can be viewed in full online here, you should I think only select one of them. Amitchell125 (talk) 19:01, 4 August 2023 (UTC)

 Done: Finally sorted out the problem by borrowing the book for an hour. ¹⁴¹Pr {contribs} 08:24, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

• N Refs 9, 15, 16, 22, 25, 28, 29, 30, 35, 41 require page numbers for me to verify the text.
• N Ref 26 has a range of pages, not a single page.

 See below. ¹⁴¹Pr {contribs} 16:23, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

• Ref 40 appears to have an incorrect title. The ref should be written as <ref>{{Cite web |title=Ho - Holmium |url=https://mmta.co.uk/metals/ho/ |access-date=5 December 2022 |publisher=MMTA |language=}}</ref>

 Done ¹⁴¹Pr {contribs} 07:59, 6 August 2023 (UTC)

• Refs 39 and 62 cannot be used to verify the text, as they are general links.

 Done ¹⁴¹Pr {contribs} 07:44, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

• Ref 28 links to a WorldCat page, this link is of little use. The link to Ref 43 is of little use, I would use this.

 Done ¹⁴¹Pr {contribs} 16:50, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

• Ref 12 shouldn't be in capitals.

 Done ¹⁴¹Pr {contribs} 16:09, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

• (not GA) Consider putting 'url-access=subscription' into Refs 7, 8, 13, 19, 24, 27, 31, 46, 47, 50, 51, 53, 57, 58, and 59.

 Done ¹⁴¹Pr {contribs} 07:37, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

• (not GA) There are urls available for Refs 9, 16, 28, and 30, which I would consider using.

9 already has a url, the others I can't find. ¹⁴¹Pr {contribs} 15:16, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

• (not GA) Ref 35 is too old for an ISBN number, but an OCLC number is available, which I would consider using.

Couldn't find any OCLC number. ¹⁴¹Pr {contribs} 15:16, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

• Ref 28 is in German; consider adding 'language=de' (normal practice)

 Done ¹⁴¹Pr {contribs} 16:09, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

• The following references appear to be dead links: 33, 34, 36, 37, and 61.

Ref 33 and 34 seem to be working for me, it seems like a French archive though. ¹⁴¹Pr {contribs} 07:47, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

And for me as well, not sure what happened... AM

• Ref 29 needs a volume number.

Couldn't find ref 29 online (at least published in 1963). ¹⁴¹Pr {contribs} 11:36, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

I found 2 volumes, and holmium isn't in either. See this. Amitchell125 (talk) 12:06, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

 Done: assuming that you wanted me to replace ref 29 with that link. ¹⁴¹Pr {contribs} 14:51, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

I'll do the others later. ¹⁴¹Pr {contribs} 16:09, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

The Refs 9, 15, 16 require page numbers for me to verify the text. As I am working through the article section by section, I cannot easily continue until these page numbers are provided. Can you address this issue please? Amitchell125 (talk) 13:56, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

Lead section / infobox

Link malleable (Ductility, here and in the following section); oxide; Earth's crust; spectroscopically (Spectroscopy); ions; fluorescent (Fluorescence);emission light lines (Emission spectrum); laser; neutron; nuclear reactor.  Done 141Pr {contribs} 15:45, 4 August 2023 (UTC) independently by - ‘independently by the Swiss chemists’. Were they acting together? The text could be read to mean they were not. How do I phrase it so that it is more obvious? 141Pr {contribs} 15:18, 2 August 2023 (UTC) Something like 'Holmium was discovered through isolation by Swedish chemist Per Theodor Cleve. It was also independently by Jacques-Louis Soret and Marc Delafontaine, who together observed it spectroscopically in 1878'. AM  Done 141Pr {contribs} 15:40, 4 August 2023 (UTC) Unlink metal (MOS:OL).  Done 141Pr {contribs} 17:03, 28 July 2023 (UTC) Cleve isn’t mentioned in the infobox.  Done 141Pr {contribs} 15:18, 2 August 2023 (UTC) Eleventh – (not GA) consider amending to ‘’11th’ (see MOS:NUMERAL), and amending other numbers greater that nine to a numerical form in a similar way, for the sake of consistency within the article.  Done 141Pr {contribs} 17:03, 28 July 2023 (UTC) rare earths - 'rare-earths' (here and in the Occurrence section).  Done 141Pr {contribs} 15:18, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

1.1 Physical properties

Dup links – dysprosium; ytterbium.  Done 141Pr {contribs} 17:05, 28 July 2023 (UTC) The first two sentences do not discuss physical properties, and so should be placed before this subsection.  Done - moved. 141Pr {contribs} 15:19, 2 August 2023 (UTC) stable – as two types of stability are referred to in the article, I would amend this to ‘chemically stable’.  Done 141Pr {contribs} 17:05, 28 July 2023 (UTC) Not yet done. Amitchell125 (talk) 16:29, 31 July 2023 (UTC)  Done - should be done now. 141Pr {contribs} 15:18, 4 August 2023 (UTC) Link electron; paramagnetic.  Done 141Pr {contribs} 17:05, 28 July 2023 (UTC) Not yet done. Amitchell125 (talk) 16:29, 31 July 2023 (UTC)  Done - should be done now. 141Pr {contribs} 15:23, 4 August 2023 (UTC) Unlink temperatures (MOS:OL).  Done 141Pr {contribs} 15:23, 4 August 2023 (UTC) ambient – it's unclear as to what is meant here, is it not simply stp?  Done 141Pr {contribs} 17:05, 28 July 2023 (UTC) Not yet done. Amitchell125 (talk) 16:29, 31 July 2023 (UTC)  Done - should be done now. 141Pr {contribs} 15:19, 4 August 2023 (UTC) other unusual magnetic properties – this needs to be expanded. it quickly oxidizes, forming a yellowish oxide – this text is about chemical properties, not physical ones.  Done 141Pr {contribs} 15:26, 2 August 2023 (UTC) Ditto that is fairly corrosion-resistant and stable in dry air at standard temperature and pressure.  Done 141Pr {contribs} 15:26, 2 August 2023 (UTC) For consistency, I would convert temperatures in K, here and elsewhere.  Done - added {{convert}} templates. 141Pr {contribs} 15:26, 2 August 2023 (UTC) There is no information about holmium's place in the periodic table (e.g. that it is in period 6).  Done 141Pr {contribs} 15:19, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

1.2 Chemical properties

Link halogen; HoBr3 (Holmium(III) bromide, moved from the link below).  Done 141Pr {contribs} 17:05, 28 July 2023 (UTC) How is it like iron rust?  Done - reworded. 141Pr {contribs} 15:23, 4 August 2023 (UTC) I would avoid quite, as being too vague. How do I make it less vague? 141Pr {contribs} 15:23, 4 August 2023 (UTC) Something Holmium is quite electropositive and is generally trivalent with something like 'On a electronegativity scale going from 0.7 (for the highly electropositive francium) to 2.98 (for the most electronegative element, fluorine), holmium is electropositive with a value of 1.23.'  Done 141Pr {contribs} 07:27, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

1.2.1 Oxidation states
Link oxidation state.  Done 141Pr {contribs} 16:57, 30 July 2023 (UTC) However, holmium is found to also exist – consider simplifying to ‘Holmium is found to exist’.  Done - although I just moved also to the beginning as it is implying that there are others. 141Pr {contribs} 16:57, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

1.3 Isotopes

Unlink Natural (MOS:OL).  Done 141Pr {contribs} 17:14, 30 July 2023 (UTC) Main article – because there is information in this subsection that isn’t included in Isotopes of holmium, I think the hatnote should be ‘Further information’ (using {{further|PAGE1}}).  Done 141Pr {contribs} 17:14, 30 July 2023 (UTC) Link stable (Stable nuclide); calibrating (Calibration).  Done 141Pr {contribs} 17:14, 30 July 2023 (UTC) 35 synthetic radioactive isotopes – avoid starting the sentence this way (MOS:NUMERAL). How do I phrase it without starting with 35? Can you give me an example? 141Pr {contribs} 17:14, 30 July 2023 (UTC) Something like: 'Of the 35 synthetic radioactive isotopes that are known, the most stable one is holmium-163'. Amitchell125 (talk) 16:22, 31 July 2023 (UTC)  Done 141Pr {contribs} 14:37, 2 August 2023 (UTC) The last paragraph is not cited. It seems to be cited. Do you mean the last sentence? 141Pr {contribs} 17:14, 30 July 2023 (UTC) Apologies, I meant from and most have... to the end. Amitchell125 (talk) 16:24, 31 July 2023 (UTC) Couldn't find any reference about 166m1Ho. 141Pr {contribs} 15:38, 4 August 2023 (UTC) Suggest: 166m1Ho has a half-life of around 1200 years. (cite using this, which also lists interesting medical applications for 166Ho in the Abstract at the top of the article) The high excitation energy, resulting in a particularly rich spectrum of decay gamma rays produced when the metastable state de-excites, makes this isotope useful as a means for calibrating gamma ray spectrometers. (cite using this; also Emsley (2011), p. 226) Hope this helps. Amitchell125 (talk) 08:17, 5 August 2023 (UTC)  Amended: Changed to your suggestion. 141Pr {contribs} 08:24, 6 August 2023 (UTC)

Checking off
Thanks for the work on this. To avoid me getting confused, please add  Done to show what you have addressed, and Ill cross out the text once I have checked it has been sorted, or a small red cross (N) if there's still an outstanding issue. Regards, Amitchell125 (talk) 19:00, 28 July 2023 (UTC) Sure, I'll keep a note of that. 141Pr {contribs} 16:57, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

2.1 Oxides and chalcogenides

Dup link - Holmium(III) oxide.  Done 141Pr {contribs} 17:23, 30 July 2023 (UTC) In the caption, link Ho2O3.  Done 141Pr {contribs} 17:23, 30 July 2023 (UTC) Why apparent?  Done 141Pr {contribs} 17:23, 30 July 2023 (UTC) Why tannish yellow? The source says “yellowish”.  Done 141Pr {contribs} 17:23, 30 July 2023 (UTC) perceived seems redundant.  Done 141Pr {contribs} 17:23, 30 July 2023 (UTC) Link emission lines, not lines.  Done 141Pr {contribs} 17:23, 30 July 2023 (UTC) Link chalcogenides.  Done 141Pr {contribs} 17:23, 30 July 2023 (UTC) It’s a little strange that the self-published image shows a pink colour, and not orange red (as the text states). Is the image really needed? One is under the cold-cathode fluorescent lamp, the text is talking about trichromatic light. 141Pr {contribs} 17:23, 30 July 2023 (UTC) Understood. In which case, the information in the caption should also appear in the text, or there's no reason for the image to be there. AM  Done - mentioned. 141Pr {contribs} 14:47, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

2.2 Halides
Dup link - Holmium(III) oxide.  Done 141Pr {contribs} 17:32, 30 July 2023 (UTC) Link salt (Salt (chemistry)).  Done 141Pr {contribs} 17:32, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

3 History

Link atomic numbers; x-ray emission lines (X-ray emission spectroscopy).  Done 141Pr {contribs} 17:33, 30 July 2023 (UTC) Holmia – amend to {{lang|la|Holmia}} (probably not needed for GA, but it’s good practice).  Done 141Pr {contribs} 17:33, 30 July 2023 (UTC) Introduce Jacques-Louis Soret; Marc Delafontaine; Per Teodor Cleve; Carl Gustaf Mosander; Henry Moseley.  Done 141Pr {contribs} 17:33, 30 July 2023 (UTC) Not yet done, for instance, Soret and Delafontaine should be introduced as 'the Swiss chemists Jacques-Louis Soret and Marc Delafontaine'. Apologies for not being clearer. Amitchell125 (talk) 16:37, 31 July 2023 (UTC)  Done - should be better now. 141Pr {contribs} 15:28, 2 August 2023 (UTC) and was the first to isolate it – I would replace it with 'the new element' (or something similar), and consider splitting it off from the rest of the sentence, to improve the prose.  Done 141Pr {contribs} 17:33, 30 July 2023 (UTC) Are all five citations for this part of the section needed (WP:CITEKILL)?  Done - removed two of them. 141Pr {contribs} 15:26, 4 August 2023 (UTC) As well – is redundant text imo.  Done 141Pr {contribs} 17:33, 30 July 2023 (UTC) Not yet done. Amitchell125 (talk) 16:41, 31 July 2023 (UTC) Seems done to me - there is no as well in the text. 141Pr {contribs} 15:27, 4 August 2023 (UTC) brown substance holmia – I would put holmia in italics here, as an introduced term. Ditto thulia.  Done 141Pr {contribs} 17:33, 30 July 2023 (UTC) an atomic number of – consider amending to something like ‘the value’, to avoid close repetition of atomic number.  Done 141Pr {contribs} 15:29, 4 August 2023 (UTC) Why Evidently?  Done 141Pr {contribs} 17:33, 30 July 2023 (UTC) Why grossly?  Done 141Pr {contribs} 17:33, 30 July 2023 (UTC) (and unplotted) – it may not be clear to readers what plotting is being referred to here. Could this be explained?  Amended: Noted hat dysprosium was undiscovered at the time. 141Pr {contribs} 15:33, 4 August 2023 (UTC) Much of the last paragraph is uncited.  Moved the ref: It was referencing the whole paragraph. 141Pr {contribs} 15:35, 4 August 2023 (UTC) The image of only one of the named scientists in this section is purely decorative, and should be deleted.  Done 141Pr {contribs} 17:33, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

4 Occurrence and production

Dup links – dysprosium; erbium; thulium; lutetium; terbium; Yttrium.  Done 141Pr {contribs} 17:42, 30 July 2023 (UTC) its immediate even-numbered neighbors – duplicated basic information.  Done 141Pr {contribs} 14:49, 2 August 2023 (UTC) Link rare earths (amended to rare-earth elements); free element; anhydrous; ore.  Done 141Pr {contribs} 17:42, 30 July 2023 (UTC) does occur combined with other elements – simplify to 'occurs'?  Done 141Pr {contribs} 17:42, 30 July 2023 (UTC) (the black part of the specimen illustrated to the right) – should be included in the caption for the image, not here.  Done 141Pr {contribs} 17:42, 30 July 2023 (UTC) Consider linking quadrillion (Names_of_large_numbers#Standard_dictionary_numbers), as it may not be a familiar term.  Done 141Pr {contribs} 17:42, 30 July 2023 (UTC) Unlink all the countries (MOS:OL). Ditto seawater; universe. It is commercially extracted - ‘Holmium is commercially extracted’ (for clarity).  Done 141Pr {contribs} 17:42, 30 July 2023 (UTC) See MOS:FRAC for why 2/3 should be amended to ‘two-thirds’.  Done 141Pr {contribs} 17:42, 30 July 2023 (UTC) The original ores themselves are very lean, maybe only 0.1% total lanthanide, but are easily extracted – I can’t find this in the citation.  Done - removed sentence. 141Pr {contribs} 14:51, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

5 Applications

The four paragraphs of this section do not need to be given individual subsections. They would be better put together in a single 4-paragraph section. Also, if the paragraphs are swapped, the image can then be repositioned so it sits opposite the text without jutting out of the section.  Done 141Pr {contribs} 14:53, 2 August 2023 (UTC) Holmium has the highest magnetic strength of any element – duplication of text in the Physical properties section.  Done 141Pr {contribs} 14:53, 2 August 2023 (UTC) Link permanent magnet (Magnet); fibre-optical (Optical fiber); absorption (Absorption (electromagnetic radiation)); gamma-ray spectrometers; nuclear fission; nuclear reactors.  Done 141Pr {contribs} 14:58, 2 August 2023 (UTC) (YLF) is not needed, as the abbreviation does not reappear in the text.  Done 141Pr {contribs} 17:45, 30 July 2023 (UTC) Consider converting 200–900 nm (200–900 nanometres (7.9×10−6–3.54×10−5 in)).  Done 141Pr {contribs} 05:20, 31 July 2023 (UTC) (see "Isotopes" above) is unnecessary.  Done 141Pr {contribs} 17:45, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

6 Biological role and precautions
Link biological role in humans (Composition of the human body), not humans.  Done 141Pr {contribs} 17:00, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

7 Prices
This section needs to be copy edited to improve the quality of the prose, remove italics, sort abbreviations, etc.. Shall I just remove this section? It justs seems off-topic imo. 141Pr {contribs} 13:13, 4 August 2023 (UTC) Good idea. Amitchell125 (talk) 18:15, 4 August 2023 (UTC)  Done - Removed. 141Pr {contribs} 18:21, 4 August 2023 (UTC)

8 See also
Holmium compounds – it should be made clearer to readers that this leads to a category, not an article.  Done 141Pr {contribs} 17:03, 30 July 2023 (UTC) Lanthanide should be removed from this list, as it appears in the article’s body (MOS:NOTSEEAGAIN). Ditto Rare earth metals (see comment in Occurrence section).  Done 141Pr {contribs} 17:03, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

9 References
See the initial comments of this review for the issues on references. Spot checking will be completed when these (specifically the ones on pages numbers, general links, and dead links) are sorted. (Earwig (here) has come up with text that seems to be copied from the sources in the article, but these websites were copied from Wikipedia.)

10 Bibliography
See above for comments on this section. Link John Emsley.  Done 141Pr {contribs} 15:31, 4 August 2023 (UTC) I'm not sure your edits always save! I did it for you. Amitchell125 (talk) 18:48, 4 August 2023 (UTC) Ah, I've recently been on editing on an iPad, it's harder to control than the computer I usually work on. 141Pr {contribs} 07:08, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

12 External links
The Wiktionary link has little use and can, I think, be left out.  Done 141Pr {contribs} 05:23, 31 July 2023 (UTC) The links marked as being also used as a reference shouldn’t be included here.  Done 141Pr {contribs} 05:23, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

On hold

I'm putting the article on hold for a week until 7 August 10 August to allow time for the issues raised to be addressed. Regards, Amitchell125 (talk) 10:43, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

It seems like I have addressed all of the comments except the ones about referencing and bibliography. I'm not sure, but I might need some help accessing some of the refs. ¹⁴¹Pr {contribs} 18:24, 4 August 2023 (UTC)

Which refs do you need to access? If you nominated the article for GA, you should be able to access all the sources yourself. Amitchell125 (talk) 07:19, 6 August 2023 (UTC)

@Praseodymium-141: Hi, the refs need sorting still, an issue that will cause the article to be failed. Do you need a few more days? Amitchell125 (talk) 17:52, 6 August 2023 (UTC)

Yes, that would be great. I'm still quite busy in real life these days, I'll try to work through them as quick as possible. ¹⁴¹Pr {contribs} 06:59, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

Done. AM

Refs

@Amitchell125: I have addressed all the issues, although I cannot access ref 9, 16, 26, 28 and 30 (the ones that are not strikethrough-ed) to sort of the page number issues. ¹⁴¹Pr {contribs} 15:16, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

I'll see what I can do.

Ref 9 8 (Cullity & Graham),  Done p.172 (here, the book is the 2005 edition, so the date in the article will need amending.) Amitchell125 (talk) 15:44, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

 Amended. ¹⁴¹Pr {contribs} 15:47, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

Ref 16 17 (Hammond);  Not done Holmium is described in the 85th edition on p.4-15 and elsewhere in the tables (here), but finding the right pages to cite might be trickier. Amitchell125 (talk) 15:56, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

Ref 26 27 (Meyer & Morss);  Done p.329 (here, via Springer (Wikipedia:The Wikipedia Library)). 16:13, 9 August 2023 (UTC)Amitchell125 (talk)

 Amended. ¹⁴¹Pr {contribs} 16:23, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

Ref 28 29 (Riedel et al.);  Not done a search for holmium in the book found nothing, even the German for holmium is holmium. Amitchell125 (talk) 16:18, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

Ref 30 31 (Wells).  Done p.421 (here). Amitchell125 (talk) 17:53, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

 Amended. ¹⁴¹Pr {contribs} 17:56, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

What shall I do about the other two? ¹⁴¹Pr {contribs} 17:57, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

Passing

We're well into GA territory here, so happy to pass the article. Regards, Amitchell125 (talk) 17:59, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

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The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.