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Talk:Holt, Wrexham

Latest comment: 1 year ago by Seth Whales in topic Village vs Town
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Latest comment: 6 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

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Village vs Town

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Latest comment: 1 year ago3 comments2 people in discussion

Hi, sources variously describe Holt as either a town or village. More sources I can find describe the settlement to be a village, including the local community council and Ordnance Survey. However, the Clwyd-Powys Archeological Trust does describe it as a town. There is said to be a town charter awarded to Holt in the mid-1200s and repeated in the 1400s and mid 1500s (see Town Charter source below). Alfred Neobard Palmer, a known Wrexham historian published books titled "The Town of Holt". I am unsure whether it should remain at "medieval market town" or be changed to "village". I am leaning towards village due to sources, however it has been at "town" since the page's creation in 2005 (not a solid reason but confusing as to why it has not been disputed for so long). Is there a source for the Holt's Town Charter and is it still in use?

List of sources I have found so far: Sources for village:

  • Holt Community Council (the local community council), their website is literally holtvillage.co.uk, they state it was founded as a English town, but now describe it to be a village. The website encourages readers to visit this Wikipedia article for more information, but not sure if it used it as a source. (Although this website seems to have more information than this article so unlikely WP:CIRCULAR).
  • Wrexham County Borough Museum[1] ("path from the village"), "village of Holt"[2]
  • Chester Tourist (debatable source)[3]
  • GENUKI[4]
  • Local Holt ward councillor (in Q&A for 2022 election, describes it as a village.)[5]
  • Ordnance Survey[6]
  • Cadw (based on descriptions of listed buildings in Holt), e.g.[1] [2] (additionally under these listing "Holt" is under locality rather than town)
  • It has a village cross. (disputed; some towns could have it)[3]
  • Local large farm shop [4]
  • The Leader (Welsh newspaper)[7]
  • Local MP[8]
  • Holt Local History Society - states it as a border village and "former town".[9]
  • ThisisWrexham (Local tourism board)[10]
  • Wicipedia (while not reliable, is interesting)

Sources for town:

Other note: one of the pre-existing sources[15] in the article has this quote: "Holt was a small old town shrunk to the dimensions of a village, and its most prominent feature was a gasometer." – Herbert George Wells. Can this be backed up further and does it support changing to "village"? (and possibly "former town"?)

Any more sources or local knowledge what happened to the town charter would help. Many Thanks – DankJae 00:42, 10 June 2022 (UTC)Reply

References

  1. ^ "Holt Castle". Wrexham Heritage. Retrieved 2022-06-09.
  2. ^ "Hidden Holt: The Story of a Roman Site". Wrexham Heritage. Retrieved 2022-06-09.
  3. ^ "Chester Tourist - Holt". www.chestertourist.com. Retrieved 2022-06-10.
  4. ^ GENUKI. "Genuki: Holt, Denbighshire". www.genuki.org.uk. Retrieved 2022-06-10.
  5. ^ "Michael Morris Holt ward - May 5th Wrexham Council Election 2022". Wrexham.com. Retrieved 2022-06-10.
  6. ^ "Holt, Wrexham (Wrecsam)". OS GetOutside. Retrieved 2022-06-10.
  7. ^ "Villagers in Wrexham put the wheels in motion for a Wales in Bloom award". The Leader. Retrieved 2022-06-10.
  8. ^ "Sarah Atherton MP praises Holt Community Gardeners". Sarah Atherton MP. Retrieved 2022-06-10.
  9. ^ "About Holt &HLHS". Holt History. Retrieved 2022-07-27.
  10. ^ Wrexham, This Is (2021-05-07). "Days Out Ideas - Holt Castle & Village". thisiswrexham. Retrieved 2022-11-25.
  11. ^ "Mapping the Medieval Townscape: a digital atlas of the new towns of Edward I". Archaeology Data Service. doi:10.5284/1000022. Retrieved 2022-06-09.
  12. ^ "Holt Town Charter – Wrexham History". Retrieved 2022-06-09.
  13. ^ Clwyd Powys Archaeological Trust Historic Settlement Survey – Wrexham County Borough - Holt (PDF). Clwyd-Powys Archaeological Trust. 2013.
  14. ^ "Details from Coflein database (33090)". Coflein. RCAHMW. Retrieved 27 July 2022.
  15. ^ "Teaching spell near Wrexham inspired one of the nation's greatest science fiction writers". The Leader. Retrieved 2022-06-10.

Guessing village should apply now as an IP editor did it anyway. DankJae 14:13, 22 March 2023 (UTC)Reply

I agree, it is highly likely to be a village rather than a town. It may well have been a town historically, but now it appears to be a village.SethWhales talk 13:59, 21 April 2023 (UTC)Reply

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