Talk:Horvat 'Ethri

Wrong article name

Hi @Zero0000:. Horvat 'Ethri is how the excavator, Boaz Zissu, transliterates the Hebrew name. It's by far the most frequently used name on the Internet (18,400 vs. 2,400 Google hits). What Ashkenazi hikers call it should be irrelevant, apart from a non-bold mention in the lead. Arminden (talk) 10:34, 4 July 2018 (UTC)

Hi Arminden, I'm not sure I understand the comment about the Ashkenazi hikers, or why it's addressed to Zero0000. However, some points regarding the name:

1. I agree that Hurvat Itri is not a correct direct transliteration because it should be Hurbat Itri
2. It does look like Horvat Ethri (or 'Ethri) is the WP:COMMONNAME, although it's wrong on so many levels that I cringe at using it
3. How the chief archaeologist prefers to spell the name in English is at most a minor consideration, assuming all other parameters being the same
4. Whatever is decided, the ‘ quote should be replaced with the regular quote symbol ( ' )

—Ynhockey ^(Talk) 15:47, 4 July 2018 (UTC)

Even had the archaeologist, Boaz Zissu, been wrong in his application of "Itri" ("Ethri") for this site, as it may have actually been called by a different name in earlier times, it has now become the official name for this site, as commissioned in 2001 by the Israel Official Names Commission, and now used by modern-day cartographers when referencing the site. Moreover, it matters very little if the English rendering of the Hebrew word חורבת is spelt "Hurvat" or "Hurbat," as both spellings are correct. As for "what the Ashkenazi hikers call it" is of "zero" relevance, as it is now the official name on Jewish National Fund (Keren Kayemeth Le-Yisrael) signposts at the archaeological site.Davidbena (talk) 17:05, 4 July 2018 (UTC)

Google Maps calls it "Horvat Atari", so maybe "Ashkenazi hikers" should be "Ashkenazi gamers". Just kidding. I have no opinion on this at the moment. Zero^talk 00:09, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

Hideout caves vs. escape tunnel

@Davidbena: Hi David, and thanks for adding the link to Escape tunnel. It's an interesting provisional solution, but problematic in the long run. The hideout caves were complex dwellings, nothing like, say, the medieval escape tunnel of the Templars in Acre, that was only used for stealthy movement. Escape tunnels are defined as a medieval feature already from the article's lead, and are just that, escape tunnels. A "red link" invites people to create an article, or at least expand an existing one with a new paragraph and create the option of a linkable solid and fitting information. There is no sub-article on "hideout caves", or, as the arheologists call them, "underground hideout complexes" dealing with the Bar Kokhba caves. Would you like to do that? As far as I know, the Vietkong tunnels can be connected to the topic, and I am sure there must be other examples from history. For now I've added a stub to Dugout (shelter). Here are some parent categories:

• Underground city
• Tunnels in popular culture
• Subterranea (geography)
• Underground living
• Dugout (shelter)

Cheers, Arminden (talk) 09:08, 8 July 2018 (UTC)

I accept your analysis. Feel free to do with this as you please. All the best.Davidbena (talk) 18:21, 8 July 2018 (UTC)