Talk:House of Erik

Moving back to "House of Erik"

I intend to move this article back to House of Erik. "Erican Dynasty" may be a WP:MADEUP term. Anyway, "dynasty" is hardly an appropriate term in an elective monarchy. /Pieter Kuiper (talk) 22:34, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

Needs admin help. See next section. /Pieter Kuiper (talk) 19:06, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Move. There is clearly consensus to move. Also, the naming convention supports this consensus, as the expression "Erican Dynasty" is not in common in English. A large proportion of the uses of it I have found are in Wikipedia, mirrors of it, or other information derived from it. The article was originally titled "House of Eric" and moved by one editor without discussion. Wikipedia articles are supposed to use the name most commonly used in English, and what it is called in Swedish or any other language is irrelevant. We do not need "a perfectly correct etymological English translation of Erikska": we need an actual English word in common use. A quick search indicates that "House of Eric" is vastly more common than "Erican Dynasty". Clearly it should be moved back to its original title. The only reason given in favour of "Erik" is the suggestion that Google books shows that as more common. however, my Google books searches give 214 hits for "House of Eric" and 78 for "House of Erik". Likewise general Google searches for give 31,700 hits for "House of Eric" and 12,400 for "House of Erik". Similar remarks apply to more specific searches, such as "House of Eric" Sweden. JamesBWatson (talk) 21:20, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

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Erican Dynasty → House of Erik — "Erican dynasty" seems to be a novelty. "Dynasty" is not really correct for the elective monarchy that Sweden was in the Middle ages. Pieter Kuiper (talk) 19:09, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

Survey

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's policy on article titles.

• Erican seems bizarre and unEnglish; therefore Support. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 16:44, 4 January 2011 (UTC)
• Support per nom. Tomas e (talk) 16:38, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

Erican is no more "bizarre and unEnglish" than Erikska is bizarre and unSwedish, but the latter is a long established Swedish name for this house. Erican, as far as I know, is a perfectly correct etymological English translation of Erikska. That was the idea. The most common Swedish word for dynasty is ätt. Thus Swedish Erikska ätten (which is what the house is always called in Sweden) becomes Erican Dynasty in English, and the intentions of the people that use that are good, even if it were against WP policy. SergeWoodzing (talk) 17:27, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

Woodzing is wrong about both Swedish and English. In English, formations like "Frederician period" are much more common than "Frederican period", which sounds a bit outlandish. And in Swedish, the suffix "-ska" is still productive for forming adjectives. And sv:ätt is not "dynasty" - maybe "clan" would be a closer equivalent during this period. /Pieter Kuiper (talk) 22:27, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

• Support, a clearly more accurate title (and a quick look at Google Books suggests that the spelling of this phrase with "k" is more common than with "c").--Kotniski (talk) 16:21, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

Discussion

Any additional comments:

I would quibble; a dynasty can certainly hold an elective throne, from the Julio-Claudian dynasty to the Habsburg Holy Roman Emperors. But the dissonance is real, and if it can be avoided by the proposed natural title, so much the better. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 16:46, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

Please do not move this to anything other than House of Eric since we spell all the Swedish Kings with a 'c'! SergeWoodzing (talk) 17:29, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

In the interest only of a better English WP I suggest we ignore the uneducated POV of a certain Dutch user living in Sweden whose knowledge of both English and Swedish is limited, especially when wishful thinking and strongly POV-motivated revenge editing are prevalent, such as "sv:ätt is not dynasty". Anyone who has even the simplest Swedish-English dictonary can confirm that as blatantly untrue (to try to put it as nicely as possible). No good faith can be assumed in that either, under the circumstances, I'm sorry to have to say. SergeWoodzing (talk) 20:09, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.