Talk:House of the Virgin Mary

Comments

Link

I am not sure about putting the link to "Virgin Mary" in "See Also" section. Is it an OK convention in wiki?

The general article about Mary is linked to in the body of the text from Mary, the mother of Jesus. The Blessed Virgin Mary link is Roman Catholic-specific, concerning that church's Marian doctrine, which is why it's under "see also." Virgin Mary is not a page with any independent content, but only a disambiguation page, and so nothing is gained from linking directly to that title. Postdlf 22:59, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Removed << Image:Pope_visit_houseofmary.jpg|thumb|right|250px|Pope John Paul II visited the House of the Virgin Mary in 1979. >> from script as the image was removed from Creative Commons due to licensing issues. Mfryc 20:14, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

Date

Are there any serious estimates of the time when this barn may have been actually built? --Ghirla ^-трёп- 11:48, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Here are some of the answers to my query:

• "A nineteenth-century German mystic, Catherine Emmerich, had visions of the house and tomb of the Virgin Mary at Ephesos, a place she had never visited. Archaeologists who excavated the site she described uncovered a tiny first-century house, which they declared to be Mary the Virgin's" (Page DuBois, Trojan horses: Saving the Classics from Conservatives, 2001, page 134).
• "Though some of the foundations of the house may be very old, it is unlikely that the sort of archaeological investigation necessary to establish their date firmly will ever be undertaken" (Richard Wallace, The Three Worlds of Paul of Tarsus, 1998, page 199).
• "It is worth noting that the tradition of Mary's residence in this city of Asia Minor arose only in the twelfth century. The universal tradition among the Fathers of the Church places her residence, and thereby the locus of her Dormition when one begins to speak of it, in Jerusalem" (Georges Henri Tavard, "The Thousand Faces of the Virgin Mary", 1996, pages 23-24).

Could we add some of this to the article? --Ghirla ^-трёп- 12:01, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

I've inserted the first reference you've mentioned into the article, the third reference is already cited, and the information in the first and third quotations are now mentioned. I think the second quotation is too subjective to be included in the article. Atilim Gunes Baydin 01:10, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Assumptio of Mary and graveyard - does this fit together?

I can hardly understand how the assumptio of the Virgin Mary fits to the graveyard in Ephesus. Jesus is gone to heaven three days after his death but what about Mary? --Weissmann 16:16, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Loreto

User:Student7 deleted:

• Another tradition holds that the Nazareth house where Mary received the Annunciation was miraculously relocated several times ending in what is now the Loreto shrine in Italy.

with Undid revision 219146431 by Error (talk)rv. Needs footnote per WP:FOOT. Probably in wrong place in article)

I don't understand the reasons for removal. Loreto is another "House of the Virgin Mary". So it should be mentioned here. However any explanation would be too long for a disambiguation line at the beginning of the article, so I thought See also would be the right place. How do you propose to mention Loreto in this article? --Error (talk) 22:55, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

I appreciate that the ambiguous name of the article may lead an editor to think that this is any house the VM lived in. However, this article only refers to a specific house in Ancient Greece, now part of Turkey.

That's why I put it not in the main text. It's just a pointer to the Loreto shrine article. --Error (talk) 23:05, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

In any event, the article needs a footnote {WP:FOOT}, from as scholarly a source as you can find (not the local chamber of commerce!  :) documenting that Wikipedia did not make up that fact, but it is some kind of story passed down, etc.

It's not usual to see references for See also, but I have added one. --Error (talk) 23:05, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

I don't know where it goes. Could construct another article if worst comes to worst. That is what someone did for this article. This involves disambiguation in this article. New article can be a stub.

In case it is not clear from my redaction, there is an article on the Loreto shrine. --Error (talk) 23:05, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Note that this article does discuss the belief that she died in Jerusalem. I suppose the difference of opinion could go there.

Not really. The Loreto house would be where Mary lived in Nazareth, not where she would have died. --Error (talk) 23:05, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Is is the DaVinci Code that says she goes to France? Hard to get enthused about this being a collection of theories not pertaining to this site. You might try looking up the book and see if there is a general article someplace.Student7 (talk) 11:14, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Links

Student7 reverted my edits on links because, quote: "changes to link names not helpful to reader. English better than web address.". However, I didn't cut any text, at contrary, I only replaced the text of the link proper with the respective site address. Not that this is an important issue, but, for instance, is "House of the Virgin, guide with map and pictures" of the site more helpful than "sacred-destinations.com, guide with map and pictures of the site"?. Also, I had removed the link to http://www.turkeyinphotos.com/virginmary.htm because the page doesn't exist.

Again, I don't consider this an important issue, but I think that my own version is more helpful and Steve didn't pay much attention to what I had done. --Stegop (talk) 19:22, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

Pushing the website name seems WP:SPAM and indeed, may be, if you have any connection to the web creators. Why is webname important at all, in other words? The only reason it could be important is for publicity purposes, it seems to me. Student7 (talk) 22:32, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

I understand your point of view, Student7, but my intention isn't advertising any of the sites, just making more clear to the reader where the link points to. For me, it's like mentioning the editor when the citation is from a book. I guess we can also consider that this is publicizing the editor. Except for short living websites, it is likely that their addresses are a better reference than their official name, which, incidentally, didn't appear in the links I edited. --Stegop (talk) 00:34, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

Article Needs Considerable Improvement.

A considerable portion of this article is unfounded and unsourced speculation with a largely religious bias. If the article ıs to be greatly improved it will need considerable overhauling in a non-biased/fact based way and with the use of consistent and accurate sourcing of all claimed facts. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Indiansummermh (talk • contribs) 21:02, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

I've removed uncited material and requested cites for others. If you notice any more, why don't you tag them? Student7 (talk) 19:44, 16 May 2011 (UTC)

That was in May 2011, in August I fixed most of it. History2007 (talk) 00:12, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

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Questionable

The parenthesis "[…] the first basilica in the world dedicated to the Virgin Mary […]" is not supported by the article Church of Mary and is in conflict with the article Church of the Seat of Mary.

Quotes:

1. The Church of Mary "is an ancient Christian cathedral dedicated to the Theotokos ('Birth-Giver of God', i.e., the Virgin Mary) […]".
2. The Church of the Seat of Mary "is the first church known to have been dedicated to the Theotokos (Mary the God-bearer) in the entire Byzantine Empire."
3. "We know of a fifth-century church at Oxyrhynchus dedicated to the Virgin, adding to the churches in Jerusalem and Rome that we have already mentioned, as well as the […] Church of St. Mary at Blachernae in Constantinople […] probably built under the empress Pulcheria's patronage during the middle of the fifth century."
   — Shoemaker, Stephen J. (2016). Mary in Early Christian Faith and Devotion. Yale University Press. ISBN 978-0-300-21721-6.

Tobias Epos (talk) 18:23, 16 September 2018 (UTC)