Talk:Hula Valley

Article name

Why Hahula Lake? It seems that article is more about Hula Valley. Further from article seems that the normal lake name is Hula Lake. So maybe we should move the page to Hula Valley (and place new redirect). -- Cate 16:04, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

Correctly. ha is the Hebrew definite (IIRC) article, it's never capitalized, and the name plus article would be correctly transcribed haHulah, and translated as "the Hulah [Lake/Valley]". Dysmorodrepanis

Ecological Significance

As one of the prime stopover points for Eurasian migrating birds, and a rich and significant local ecosystem, the Hula valley is ecologically significant on a hemispoerical level. surely some mention should be made of this? I am no expert but will write something brief if nobody better qualified does the job

--213.8.87.25 12:55, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Lake Agmon - no such thing

Agmon is an unofficial word which means "little lake". calling this little lake "lake agmon" is therfore calling him "lake little lake". The place is known as "Agmon ha-Hula" (something like "Hula Little lake"). I don't know how to translate it, but it's deffinately not "Lake Agmon". Idobi1 (talk) 21:00, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

Language is a funny thing - it has a life of its own! And it's certainly not a Lego game. So Lake Agmon is very much a valid name in English. If it's good enough for the Israeli Foreign Ministry, as quoted by the Jewish Virtual Library (see https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Society_&_Culture/geo/Hula.html), it should be good enough for Wik. - and for our dear friend Idobi1  :-) ArmindenArminden (talk) 21:14, 22 June 2016 (UTC)

Where is the northern boundary?

Pls someone explain the term to the end: where does the Hula Valley end in the north? Since there is no proper name for what is geographically the upper Jordan Valley (from the main tributaries and their confluence, through the Hula swamps, the Korazim block, and to the mouth of the Jordan where it flows into the Sea of Galilee), at least the extent of the term "Hula V." should be better defined: is it used in the narrow meaning of the historic swampland above the Korazim block, or is the term "stretched" to include more of the Jordan Rift Valley north of that? N.b.: geogr. terminology does not depend on logic, but on what is the common use of names. ArmindenArminden (talk) 21:23, 22 June 2016 (UTC)

Its geological boundary is defined here I believe. Doug Weller talk 16:02, 23 June 2016 (UTC)

@Doug Weller: hi. My main interest is in geographical terminology, upper Jordan Valley vs. Hula Valley.

That source is a. one single author's system, and b. it refers to geology, not geography - a very different approach. It speaks of a central rift valley segment holding the lake, and a northern one from around Korazin to Metulla-Marj Aiyoun. Not relevant. I am trying to figure out if and why geographically speaking hardly anyone talks of the "upper Jordan Valley", and how that term is defined by those who do use it: as identical to the Hula Valley, or not?

Another aspect: it seems to me that the term Lake Hula/Huleh referred to a swampy area that never covered the entire basin stretching from Metulla, which is at a certain elevation above the valley, to the Korazim block. Maybe there is a distinction between Hula Lake and Hula Valley? Regarding the upper Jordan valley: How to define the upper course of a river probably follows a set of rules (hydrological basin, confluence of main tributary streams into a river, etc.). Arminden (talk) 16:29, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

Sorry, I can't get involved anymore. I'm far too busy and getting stressed out! Doug Weller talk 19:37, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

Define Hula Valley vs. Lake Hula

It's the same as the above question, but sharper. ArmindenArminden (talk) 09:42, 24 June 2016 (UTC)

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1948 ethnic cleansing

Benny Morris "1948" has a brief account of the May 1948 ethnic cleansing of Arabs from the region by Palmach, pages 159-160. 2600:6C44:437F:D901:3960:6F6B:B94E:68C9 (talk) 02:36, 10 October 2018 (UTC)

Map please!

This article describes boundaries, but could really use a map for those of us who otherwise have to look up all of the boundary landforms. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:644:8B00:2420:606A:2FE5:3BCF:5A38 (talk) 22:17, 15 May 2020 (UTC)

Ottoman concession

To editor Onceinawhile: The article has "In 1908, the Ottoman government granted a concession to drain the marsh to a French firm, which sold it to Lebanese businessmen." I don't know where that comes from. The translation printed in the Palestine Gazette started "Javid Bey, Minister of Finance, acting on behalf of the Imperial Ottoman Government, on the one part, and Muhammad Omar Beyhum and Michel Sursock, merchants, of Beirut, on the other." and was dated "June 1330". That date in the Ottoman calendar was in 1914. I'll send you a report with a detailed history. A later document says that Beyhum and Sursock formed a company called the Syro-Ottoman Agricultural Company, which transferred the concession to the Palestine Land Develop­ment Company on Oct 3, 1934. In 1938, the government divided the area into "reserved" and "unreserved" sections. The reserved section was for Arab cultivators. Somewhere there is a map showing the two sections in color but I haven't found it yet. Zero^talk 10:15, 2 March 2021 (UTC)

Thanks Zero0000. It is set out very clearly in W. P. N. Tyler. (1991). The Huleh Lands Issue in Mandatory Palestine, 1920-34. Middle Eastern Studies, 27(3), 343-373. Retrieved March 2, 2021, from http://www.jstor.org/stable/4283445 I think the lead character in the saga was Salim Ali Salam, although nothing in his article at the moment. Onceinawhile (talk) 10:56, 2 March 2021 (UTC)

@Onceinawhile: Right, it was on my computer already but I missed it. No sign of 1908 or the French firm there, though, so that should be removed if there is no other source. Tyler also published a paper on the later history: The Huleh Concession and Jewish Settlement of the Huleh Valley, 1934-48; Middle Eastern Studies, Vol. 30, No. 4 (Oct., 1994), pp. 826-859. I see the reserved/unreserved division is on a map there, but not the pretty red and blue map that the archives speak of. Zero^talk 13:23, 2 March 2021 (UTC)

We still don't know what we're talking about!

Most paragraphs here reflect this fundamental problem: "Article name", "Where is the northern boundary?", "Define Hula Valley vs. Lake Hula", "Map please!".

NO DEFINITION: Geographical/hydrological vs. geological p.o.v.? No clear boundaries. No map.

How close does it correlate to the expanse of the Hula Lake (before it being dried up)? Or is it synonymous to "upper Jordan River course/valley"?

Until this fundamental issue is addressed, the article is of minimal use at best, confusing at worst. Arminden (talk) 16:42, 14 November 2023 (UTC)