Talk:IWGP Heavyweight Championship

About pre-1987

The pre-1987 title history should be included. Yes, it was a championship; it just wasn't defended throughout the year in the way that we conventionally talk about titles now. It was a title contested once a year in an annual tournament. Hogan won it in 1983 and lost it in 1984. This history should be included with acknowledgment that the title became a conventionally defended title much later. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.105.189.52 (talk) 06:08, 9 April 2017 (UTC)

The IWGP Heavyweight Title didn't officially exist prior to 1987. The times where Hogan was apparently the champion and lost it to Inoki, etc, it wasn't the actual belt. It was a tournament of some sort. See here:

http://www.wrestling-titles.com/japan/newjapan/iwgp.html

The title was officially created in 1987. More proof here:

• http://www.puroresufan.com/njpw/history/hwtitle.php
• http://www.wrestling-titles.com/japan/newjapan/iwgp-h.html

--Voievod 00:22, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

World Title Status

PWI does not recognize this title as a World Title. --Talison 21:09, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

False. Myabe you're thinking of NOAH's GHC Heavyweight Title. --Voievod 22:08, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

No, I am thinking of the IWGP Title, though the GHC is also not recognized by PWI. Besides everything I have ever read in a PWI publication in the last ten years, this month's issue (Cover dated August 2006) returns World Title Status to the NWA Title. In the article editor Stu Saks clearly states again that the only titles ever recognized by PWI as World Titles are the W/WWF/E, NWA/WCW, AWA, and ECW. He also states that they dropped recognition of the NWA Title around 91 with the formation of WCW's Title. Further, he states how stingy PWI has been in granting World Title Status and mentions UWF, AWF, and World Class as promotions that lobbied for recognition but were denied. Finally, in the monthly rankings page, they use the word "World" on titles they consider such. The New Japan Title is listed as the IWGP Heavyweight Champion. --Talison 20:23, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Umm, maybe that's because the title is called the "IWGP Heavyweight Title" and not the "IWGP World Heavyweight Title" by NJPW itself. Just like a title can be called a "world title" and not actually be as much, a title doesn't need to be called a "world" title to be a world title (seeing as how "IWGP" stands for "International Wrestling Grand Prix", it would've been redundant to refer to the belt as the " International Wrestling Grand Prix World Heavyweight Title". See, I get tired just writing that.). As much as prerequisites for recognition are concerned, the IWGP Heavyweight Title satisfies all of them: New Japan is a prestigious promotion, they have a nationally broadcasted show AND the title has been defended on foreign soil. PROOF:

• (12/11/88 @ Tennessee MMC, USA) Tatsumi Fujinami beat Tommy Lane (10:52) with a Scorpion Deathlock (4th defense)
• (6/4/05 @ Milan Mazda Palace, Italy) Hiroyoshi Tenzan beat Scott Norton (12:29) with a moonsault press (1st defense)

On a related note, the AJPW Triple Crown was never defended outside Japan, but it's still considered the only other "world title" in Japan besides the IWGP Heavyweight Title. But not recognising the IWGP Heavyweight Title as a world title would certainly be a boorish act on PWI's part, and would hurt a lot of their credibility. So they'd pretty much shoot their own damn selves in the foot. --Voievod 21:15, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

I completely understand the arguement that the Title has been defended outside of Japan as a vaild claim to World Title status. But we are talking about wether PWI recognizes it as such. I hav never read anything in any issue of PWI or related specials where they give World Title Status to any Japanese Belt. I remember several times that they discussed what belts they do recognize. They typically do not use a companies exact wording for a belt. If we are going by PWI, it's not a World Title. If someone can site an issue number where it is refered to as such, please post it. --Talison 22:11, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Also, I think you miss my point. In the September 2006 issue PWI had a retrospective of the original ECW. It is broken down by year. The ECW Title is refered to as the "ECW Heavyweight Title" in every year's article untill 1999. In 99 the #5 story of the year is listed as "The ECW Heavyweight Championship recieves World Title Designation from PWI." In the remaining articles from 99 on the title is called the ECW World Title. My point being that this is what PWI does. Regardles of the Titles name they have a designation for it in thier magazines. If they consider it a World Title they use the word World in it's designation.--Talison 16:29, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

It does not matter if PWI considers it a "World" title or not. New Japan has never declared it a "World" title. And they are the ones that count, not PWI. It does not matter anyways, like the Triple Crown and GHC, the IWGP is just as respected as any "World" title.--DanteAgusta (talk) 13:40, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Re: Pre-1987

The information given above appears to be completely contradicted by the PWI 2007 Wrestling Almanac and book of facts. It lists Hogan's reign as the first, and makes no comments on the IWGP title not existing prior to 1987. PWI has been very meticulous about this kind of thing, and in earlier versions of the almanac produced a list of active and inactive titles. They have never indicated that Hogan's championship is a seperate championship, and he is the first champion listed in their records. Either Hogan's championship is somehow considered a phantom reign, or someone has their information wrong about the idea that Hogan's title wasn't the IWGP title. Although PWI's focus is primarily on American wrestling, they do cover events in Japan, and the fact that they continue to list Hogan's victory on the active titles section, without making any comment giving it a distinction as a seperate belt indicates that NJPW considers him to have been the IWGP World Heavyweight Champion as it is recognized today. PWI would not have put Hogan's name on their list of people to have held the belt if he had not held it.

Warwolf1 22:39, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Hogan won the 1983 IWGP League, and was presented with a belt as the winner, but that belt was never defended. Inoki didn't beat Hogan for that title in 1984, he beat Hogan in the finals of the 1984 IWGP League. The IWGP Heavyweight Championship wasn't created until 1987, when Inoki won a decision tournament, beating Masa Saito in the final. 212.84.96.252 11:41, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Brock Lesnar

Is it true that Brock Lesnar never returned the belt, after he left NJPW? --Gemini2525 20:01, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

- Lesnar did not return the belt. The belt he defended in IGF was that belt. New Japan still own the rights to the IWGP name, not Antonio Inoki. It means that Yuji Nagata is still the IWGP Heavyweight Champion, not Kurt Angle. 212.84.96.252 11:35, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Angle's REIGN

Do we count it?

We shouldn't count it, at all. The only ones recognizing Angle as an IWGP Champion are IGF and TNA, both companies have NO say whatsoever however in who is recognized as an IWGP Champion. Edgar 22:16, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

Kurt Angle should be recognized as an interim IWGP World Heavyweight Champion. Just like UFC has done with their Light Heavyweight Title and Heavyweight Title before. MC511 (talk) 08:29, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Except Angle won the title under the jurisdiction of a completely different company, without the authorization of NJPW. Just because another company claims he's IWGP champion doesn't mean he is. --MarcK 09:29, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Trust me, NJPW is in on this. NJPW has Angle booked in January 08 to defend his "IWGP World Title". MC511 (talk) 23:25, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Just because they've negotiated to bring the title into NJPW doesn't mean they had anything to do with the creation of it, nor does it mean he's recognized as a true IWGP champion. The simple fact is that he's not listed under any reliable title histories, specifically the one at NJPW's official site. --MarcK 08:23, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Initially to me the angle with Lesnar and the 3rd belt in Inoki's promotion defending it and Angle did look like a work, but now it shows no true sign of it being so as New Japan is the company that has booked the show with him defending it against Nagata. It would've been more meaningful and like a work if Angle defended it on an IGF show against an NJ guy, but that's not the case. New Japan Pro Wrestling recognizes Hiroshi Tanahashi as the IWGP Heavyweight Champion, and Nagata and another reign of Tanahashi before him leading from Lesnar's reign being terminated in summer '06. NJPW recognize Angle as the IWGP 3rd Belt Champion, and not as a secondary or primary Heavyweight champion. They're taking back their belt. TonyFreakinAlmeida (talk) 00:26, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Add it to the note section when When tna started reconizing him as champ. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Masterman4 (talk • contribs) 01:13, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Re: Brock Lesnar

Yes, it is true that Lesnar never returned the title, and he was NOT recognized as the IWGP champion after he was stripped and Antonio Inoki is in NO position to recognized IWGP Champions! The IWGP trademark is owned by New Japan Pro-Wrestling and controlled by the IWGP Championship Committee.

The current and official title holder history is listed here: http://www.njpw.co.jp/histry/heavy.html

Yuji Nagata is the current champion, he has NOT been stripped!

Who ever edited the page and added the "Nagata was stripped, Lesnar was the champion etc." was lying. Just because Lesnar never returned the belt does not make him a champion. Whatever pseudo championship Inoki/Lesnar may want to create, it has nothing to do with the real IWGP championship and should not be treated as such.

what happen

wasnt the IWGP World Heavyweight Championship NOT THE IWGP Heavyweight Championship —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.1.250.99 (talk) 23:32, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

Thought the IWGP Heavyweight title is a major championship. It is not a "World" title. New Japan has never used the word World at any time, nor do I expect them to. This does not take away the belt being more improtant than almost every so called "World" title in the world.--DanteAgusta (talk) 00:06, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Great Muta/Keiji Mutoh

New Japan (or rather, Japanese wrestling as a whole) has long considered The Great Muta and Keiji Muta as two totally separate characters and people. Should this be reflected in the title count? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.178.118.148 (talk) 00:32, 5 October 2016 (UTC)

• A quick search through NJPW.co.jp came up with several articles referencing Muta as Mutoh's alter-ego. Here's two just as examples (1 and 2). Even if what you say was true, no, it should not be reflected. Wikipedia deals with facts and it has been well established that Muta and Mutoh are the same guy. リボン・サルミネン (Ribbon Salminen)(ZOOM) 03:40, 5 October 2016 (UTC)

Pic of belt alone

Thinking we can maybe switch the picture to one of just the belt alone? Plenty of good pics on Google. Jedi Striker (talk) 06:07, 14 February 2017 (UTC)

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Seperate page for title reigns

I feel that the IWGP title reigns section should be split into a different article. Almost every other modern day major wrestling promotion's world title has a separate article for the title reigns (eg. List of WWE Champions, List of Impact World Champions, List of ROH World Champions etc.) Why should this be different considering it’s linege? I will need a general consensus however, as this is a large move. Thoughts? Ducktech89 ^(talk) 24 August 2019, 8:45 (UTC)

@Ducktech89: You should have brought this up at WP:PW or at least notified the project that you started a discussion on this. It is going on three weeks and nobody has bothered to comment. You should leave a notification of this. Mr. C.C.^{Hey yo!}_{I didn't do it!} 23:57, 10 September 2019 (UTC)