Talk:I Can Only Imagine (MercyMe song)

Necessity

Is this page really necessary? I don't see too many pages focusing on individual songs and their lyrics. - Cybjorg 20:26, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

I don't feel it is, no. Perhaps an AfD is in order. The Hooded Man 01:01, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

I expanded it from a stub. Apparently, the song is notable for crossing over from Christian radio to mainstream radio. Noelle De Guzman 14:47, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

152.163.100.133 03:15, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

I don't understand why everyone wants to destroy Wikipedia's pages, this is a well made page about a good song which can be used as reference for this band's fans. Do not delete articles unless all the information on it is false or it is extreamly small. 132.203.54.89 16:38, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

I found the page useful as i had questions about this song that was answered.-Journeyman

I added that that song has been covered by Rita Springer. -WikiFiend90 14:34, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

The purpose of this website is a free exchange of information. Sounds like it meets the criteria to me. -Logiccircuits

Suggestions to improve the article for Good Article review

The lead of the article is too short per WP:MOSINTRO. I am very familiar with the song. Didn't its popularity in secular markets become because of airplay after the September 11th attacks? Royalbroil 12:21, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

I doubt it, given the song only became popular in mainstream markets in 2003 - I don't think this song was like, say, Superman (It's Not Easy) that got success because of 9/11.

I have a couple of documentaries from the band I could source for some other article stuff, and I haven't written about the music video left. I could also probably add some brief info on chart positions and it's lyrical themes. Toa Nidhiki05 13:41, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

There's a fair bit of work to do yet on the article before it will pass as a Good Article, so I hope that you want to do work on the fly. I'll try to help as my schedule permits. I've done a few GA already as you can see. Every sentence needs to be sourced by a Reliable Source. Either that or it should be removed. The quality of the source also needs to be analyzed. Ones with Wikipedia articles usually are fine. Ones like Billboard are golden since they're reputable and aimed at music. Jesus Freak Hideout is the best one specifically for Contemporary Christian music. Royalbroil 12:30, 13 August 2011 (UTC)

This source is comprehensive but I'm not convinced that it's very reliable. Maybe its content can be located in other reliable sources. I found it looking for content about September 11th attacks related to their popularity. Royalbroil 12:55, 13 August 2011 (UTC)

Alright, so glad to see there are some more people to help. If this needs every sentence sourced, we have some work to do.

I'm not sure Billboard would cover a Christian song, not even a crossover one like this, but I'll check their archives. JFH is probably the best bet in terms of interviews and articles related to the song.

I'm not sure about the Joy97 one, either - It's information seems factual based on my knowledge of MercyMe via interviews and the like, but is unsourced, and they don't get the song name right until the end. Personally, I'd use it, but I'd actively search for a better, more reliable source to replace it. Toa Nidhiki05 13:48, 13 August 2011 (UTC)

At this point, I'd gander that while the source may not be reliable, the information in it is - all of the information about MercyMe signing a record deal because they couldn't handle distribution is verified by the band themselves on the Platinum edition of "Almost There". The information on the inspiration for Undone is correct, as is the critical reception to it. I'll include the source, but with a {{Better source}} tag, so we can possibly find a better source. Toa Nidhiki05 22:45, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

Having Reliable sources is a requirement to passing GA and needing maintenance (like Better Source) will fail it per WP:GACR. Royalbroil 02:59, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

Good point, then... Does anyone else know of a better source to add the 9/11 bit? Toa Nidhiki05 15:25, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

Some suggestions

I noticed this article is being nominated to become a GA. I noticed some things on this article that might need change:

Lead

1. The lead is too short. According to WP:Lead, only articles with 15,000–30,000 characters should have three paragraphs as the lead. I would just combine it into one paragraph.
2. Unlink dates.

Background

1. When using more than one reference back-to-back, make sure they are in numerical order (e.g. [3][2] should read [2][3])
2. Unlink dates
3. Use brackets instead of parentheses in quotations.

Composition

1. Why is the image here? Is the band playing "I Can Only Imagine"?
2. First sentence might be challenged.
3. I would put the last sentence in the first paragraph.

Release and promotion

1. I would use "number one" instead of its abbreviation.
2. Unlink dates
3. "It became one of the most requested songs not only at the Dallas radio station but also at radio stations across the United States as the band's label, INO Records, partnered with Curb Records to publicize the song." needs a citation.
4. "To attract more mainstream sales, Curb released a physical single release in 2003, adding MercyMe's current single on Christian radio at that point, "Word of God Speak" as it's A-side." How do I know the release of the physical single was to attract more mainstream sales?
5. "Eventually, the song cracked into many secular charts, including the Billboard Hot 100, Hot Adult Contemporary Tracks, Hot Adult Top 40 Tracks, Top 40 Mainstream, and Country Songs charts." Needs a citations. Also, put Billboard in italics.

Music video

1. Needs references.

Chart performance

1. Use brackets instead of parentheses.
2. I would combine the two paragraphs in the Chart performance together.
3. Write out number instead of using "#"
4. Billboard should have italics.
5. What is the RIAA? I know it's the Recording Industry Association of America, but not everyone knows that. Also, I believe the RIAA does shipments, not sales.
6. I would link certified platinum to RIAA certification instead.

Other versions

1. unlink date
2. write out number

Charts

1. I would label this "Charts and certifications" instead.
2. I would use {{singlechart}} for the table. Not a necessity though.

References

1. What makes Christianity Today International a RS? Also, the link puts me to http://www.kyria.com/ which is wrong.
2. Use an en-dash "–" instead of a dash "-"
3. Don't use the language parameter for English. It's already implied.
4. accessdates are inconsistent. Some are YYYY-DD-MM while other are DD-MMMM-YYYY
5. Ref 15 does not have a work nor a publisher
6. What makes The Trades a RS?
7. For ref 6, the title should have "review" in there somewhere. Also, Rovi Corporation is the publisher

I hope I helped you, and if I'm wrong on anything, don't listen to me. I hope this article passes GA! :)
—Michael Jester (talk)

I haven't checked all of the changes but almost all seem like good ideas. I do strongly disagree with removing the photo of the band. How else do we know who the artist is without seeing their photo? The photo is on-topic in my opinion. I'm not concerned with in which section it is placed. Royalbroil 12:05, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

Agreed about the image, but perhaps we could find one from one of the many live videos they have released of them playing the song live? I would add it myself (as well as images from the music video), but I have absolutely no clue how to take a good image of a music video. Otherwise the advice is solid, and I think we should work based off of it (to-do list, perhaps).

Also, while the RIAA does certify on shipments, I Can Only Imagine was certified specifically for 1,000,000 in digital sales, not physical sales - I've actually found other sources saying the song has closer to 2,000,000 or 3,000,000 in overall (digital and physical) sales, although I'll need to re-find them again.

Oh, and I have found two sources showing release dates for the physical single - CMT claims the single was released on January 1st, 2001, while Barnes and Noble asserts it was released on August 23, 2003. Notably, though, B&N says the song was originally released in 2001. Would it be fine, then, to note January 1st, 2001 as the original release date, and August 23, 2003 as the re-issue? Toa Nidhiki05 15:30, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

References

You can't just add a frame or a portion from their video legally. The only way is if it passes Wikipedia:Fair use#Multimedia. The same thing for videos that other people took of them performing - you would need permission from the band and have it verified through OTRS. I disagree that the photo needs to be of them performing this specific song. It's not like you could tell if it really was or wasn't. For the sales history, you can easily list each statistic separately (digital vs vinyl). Fine about listing two dates if it was re-released. Royalbroil 02:53, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

Hm, well that might be hard then... The only way to get approval would be either to Twitter, request on Facebook, or e-mail. Bart Millard is pretty active on Twitter, but I don't think he really replies to other tweets usually. I suppose just showing the band playing is reasonable (given nobody can really know what they were playing at the moment), so I'd agree to keep that. Toa Nidhiki05 13:26, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

To-do list

Music video

1. Needs references.

Others are welcome to add, remove, or suggest additions. Toa Nidhiki05 15:35, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

Source proposal

I found this source through a google search: http://www.mikecurb.com/about/pdf/1_records.pdf

It seems to be a comprehensive history of all of Curb Record's number 1 singles. Among other things, it lists Imagine as spending ten weeks atop the Billboard Singles Sales chart and two weeks atop a 'Christian Adult Contemporary' chart. I was wondering if the rest of you would consider this a legitimate source for that type of information. Just as a note, the single catalog number (73150) matches the number the Barnes and Noble site uses. Toa Nidhiki05 16:18, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

It looks like a self-published website, so I would say no per WP:USERG. Surely that information can be found elsewhere. I look directly at the official website for Billboard since it's the real source. While researching I found this which says that this song was the #9 most digital download of the year - IN 2010! Does the article mention that the song was re-released on a retrospective album [1] ? Royalbroil 12:54, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

I know - the song rarely ever leaves the top ten on iTunes. Perhaps someone that has a .biz account can check the information, because those charts (and histories) are on the .biz site? We know the date the source claims, so at least that is something. I don't have one (I think the prices are absurd), but maybe someone else does? Toa Nidhiki05 13:42, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

Apparently Billboard.biz has a search thing so that you can see the charted songs an artist has had, but unless you are a member, you can't view the peak position. Perhaps we could get someone to look for us. Toa Nidhiki05 19:06, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

Just an update, Mike Curb.com is linked to at the top right corner of Curb.com. Accordingly, I'm quoting that 'Curb Records asserts the song peaked at' those spots until we find someone to look through the Billboard archives. Toa Nidhiki05 19:55, 11 September 2011 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 27 external links on I Can Only Imagine (MercyMe song). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.foxnews.com/story/0%2C2933%2C91175%2C00.html
• Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.ascap.com/playback/2003/fall/radar-mercyme.html
• Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.todayschristianmusic.com/artists/mercyme/features/a-severe-mercy/
• Corrected formatting/usage for http://itunes.apple.com/us/album/almost-there-platinum-edition/id299156360
• Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.allmusic.com/artist/pete-kipley-p405536/credits
• Corrected formatting/usage for http://ht.salemweb.net/ccm/ccmmagazine/pdf/200309.pdf
• Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.crosswalk.com/culture/music/i-can-only-imagine-impacts-mainstream-radio-1203206.html
• Corrected formatting/usage for http://music.barnesandnoble.com/I-Can-Only-Imagine-Word-of-God-Speak/MercyMe/e/715187315020
• Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.todayschristianmusic.com/artists/mercyme/features/well-mercy-me-children/
• Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.crosswalk.com/church/worship/song-story-i-can-only-imagine-1221889.html
• Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.allmusic.com/album/almost-there-r546281/review
• Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.jesusfreakhideout.com/cdreviews/AlmostThere.asp
• Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.mikecurb.com/about/pdf/billboard_charted_singles.pdf
• Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.mikecurb.com/about/pdf/1_records.pdf
• Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.christiantoday.com/article/mercyme.makes.history.as.i.can.only.imagine.surpasses.1.million.downloads/25752.htm
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110820050733/http://www.doveawards.com/history.php?x=year to http://www.doveawards.com/history.php?x=year
• Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.todayschristianmusic.com/artists/mercyme/features/real-people-real-worship/
• Corrected formatting/usage for http://spaceflight1.nasa.gov/gallery/audio/shuttle/sts-129/html/ndxpage1.html
• Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.jesusfreakhideout.com/cdreviews/MercyMeiTunesOriginals.asp
• Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.jesusfreakhideout.com/cdreviews/10.asp
• Corrected formatting/usage for http://christianmusic.about.com/od/whosingsthat/tp/Who-Sings-I-Can-Only-Imagine.htm
• Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.thefish.com/music/reviews/11618812/Satisfy/
• Corrected formatting/usage for http://itunes.apple.com/us/album/almost-there/id193656444
• Corrected formatting/usage for http://itunes.apple.com/us/album/spoken-for/id270317200
• Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.billboard.biz/bbbiz/charts/yearendcharts/2003/asititl.jsp
• Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.billboard.biz/bbbiz/charts/yearendcharts/2003/hsstitl.jsp
• Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.billboard.biz/bbbiz/charts/yearendcharts/2010/christian-gospel-digital-songs

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 06:14, 8 April 2017 (UTC)

Requested move 9 November 2017

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Not moved  — Amakuru (talk) 16:05, 16 November 2017 (UTC)

---

I Can Only Imagine (MercyMe song) → I Can Only Imagine – The article for this song receives many multiples of the number of views that I Can Only Imagine (David Guetta song) receives. I Can Only Imagine (MercyMe song) is the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. This article should be moved to "I Can Only Imagine", with a disambiguation page link at the top. Instaurare (talk) 00:02, 9 November 2017 (UTC) Instaurare (talk) 00:02, 9 November 2017 (UTC)

• Very weak support - Torn on this. This is undoubtably the more popular and influential song with this title... in the United States. The other song had a bigger international presence, not enough to overcome the view lead but worth considering. When it comes to Google traffic, both have about an equal result, with the Guetta one being slightly higher (again, probably international traffic). That being said, MercyMe version has been widely covered by notable artists across multiple genres, with some of them actually charting and at least one version (Tamela Mann's) topped a Billboard chart, the Gospel Airplay chart. There's also the complication of the upcoming movie based on this song.

Those last two (widely covered and made into a movie) are the reasons I'm supporting a move, especially the movie. That's pretty unique. That being said I'm not entirely convinced here and I'm a fan of the band, so take that with a grain of salt. Toa Nidhiki05 01:32, 9 November 2017 (UTC)

• Oppose malformed, the target is a dab page - and would have opposed even if properly formatted, since ambiguating one of several articles is a bad idea anyway, but particularly in this case if there's I Can Only Imagine (film) coming In ictu oculi (talk) 06:32, 9 November 2017 (UTC)
• Oppose. Way too many things with this name, and a song that's just more popular in one particular country is not magically the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC; that's just WP:SYSTEMICBIAS.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ >^ʌⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ^ʌ<  12:10, 9 November 2017 (UTC)

Aren't the pageview statistics worldwide? And I don't see how the most-played CCM song of all time is not the primary topic compared to a fairly minor pop song that was briefly popular in parts of Europe and the US. Instaurare (talk) 07:13, 10 November 2017 (UTC)

• Oppose - Unconvinced that this is truly the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC, and with the I Can Only Imagine (film) coming out in 2018 things could easily change again. Its a safer bet to keep things diambiguated. Revisit this in 2019. -- Netoholic @ 07:54, 12 November 2017 (UTC)
• Oppose. Even in the US, the MercyMe song charted lower than the David Guetta song. Let's not mention how the two songs performed internationally. feminist 11:11, 16 November 2017 (UTC)

---

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

I Can Only Imagine is known for the best song ever written on the face the earth. It is considered the "in" song of the 2000s. EVERYBODY loves it, so if a person doesn't like the hit, they are stupid! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.169.104.179 (talk) 23:49, 25 September 2018 (UTC)