Talk:Ian Freeland

Date of retirement

"Freeland requested to be relieved of his post in June 1971, due to its extremely stressful nature..."

As far as I can tell from CAIN here, he was replaced in February. I'm not quite sure what we need to do with this sentence... Shimgray | talk | 18:43, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

Good spot, The Times obit seems to have completely screwed up on this, it definitely says June 1971, but looking at other articles, it could actually have been as early as June 1970 that he applied for relief - it was reported in September 1970 that both he and the Chief Constable were stepping down at their own request. I'll try and sort this out. David Underdown (talk) 10:12, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

Actually the idea that things were still quiet in July 69, and that there were only 1000 troops there seems to be off beam too. I've jsut found an April 69 Times article which is already talking about rioting, and 5,000 trrops being available (though some of these seem to be the locally raised TA units, rather than regulars). David Underdown (talk) 10:40, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

From the official Army history - the first major rioting was October 1968, another big one in January 69, and then it "escalated through the summer". There were three resident infantry battalions in Northern Ireland in August 1969 (and one armoured recce regiment); ten rifle companies were deployed on the streets on August 14th 1969, and a further (temporary) battalion turned up from the UK the next day. No troops were deployed before this... perhaps the "available" figure is just an off-the-cuff calculation? By October 13th, Hansard quotes ten battalions (one of Marines) plus two armoured squadrons, so it surged fast. I can find a graph of troop strengths which quotes the first datapoint as a total strength of maybe 6,000, but it's not clear if that's the first tranche in August or the level it reached by October...

Speaking of which, there's some fun stuff in Hansard, if you want to dig around. One part that might be worth mentioning is this rather bizzare written question - a kidnap plot against him? Shimgray | talk | 13:24, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

I had given a citation for Freeland's retirement - from Paul Bew and Gordon Gillespie's book. The entry for the 3rd of February, 1971 (page 32) says that "the following day" (the 4th) Freeland was replaced "as Army GOC" by Erskine-Crum. I'm going to restore the text and add the page ref for his becoming "Director of Operations in security matters". --Setanta747 (talk) 14:54, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

The info was still there, I had just moved it to the relevant place chronologically as I'd initially overlooked it when I was working from the Times obit, or I'd have noticed the contradiction about when he asked for relief earlier. Rather than leaving duplicate info in, I've deleted your recent addition again, since it seems to make more sense in chronological order, and it's already referenced from the London Gazette, which is the official record, and freely available, rather people having to find the book. David Underdown (talk) 15:18, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

No problem David - thanks for correcting a mistake then. :)

I'm not sure about that sentence (and I think somebody mentioned it above - yourself in fact) with regard to Northern Ireland "still [being] quiet". While worse was to come in 1972 through to 74 or 75, NI had seen some of the worst violence for decades in the previous year. It was though, I think, during a relatively quiet period that Freeland got his appointment. I think we should re-word it, as it makes it sounds as though there wasn't any trouble before his appointment, which is incorrect. --Setanta747 (talk) 16:19, 1 September 2008 (UTC)