Talk:Ice bath

This page reads like a magazine article - perhaps it needs to be cleaned up and standardized? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.45.205.40 (talk) 05:26, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

floated article

Brrrrrr. Need a hot tea. Comments -- somewhat unsure if I got all the categories. Is there an infobox for a subject like this? Not sure if this subject is mainstream or alternative medicine, probably the latter. Probably might be good to get a biologist or researcher familiar with this subject to give this article a look over. Brrrrrrrr--Tomwsulcer (talk) 04:40, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

Well done!

Just came across this on new pages patrol - lovely article :D Pesky (talk …stalk!) 09:56, 7 September 2011 (UTC)

Thanks! It gets pretty good readership too (somewhat surprising to me). Just hope nobody dies from this (my non-medical point of view guess is that this practice is not good for the body.) And I can't understand how some people can go longer than 20 minutes, like the Sugarman stuff which somebody else nicely added. --Tomwsulcer (talk) 12:10, 7 September 2011 (UTC)

Cochrane data

This is interesting information but at the same time it is probably best to avoid going into too much detail here, with temperatures, statistics & such; if persons are interested in the specifics of the study, they can go right to it. The authors concluded at the end of their paper that more high quality research is needed, although they found signs pointing to the benefits of cold-water immersion. So I think this data belongs as one of the instances of interesting but inconclusive research; it is interesting information..--Tomwsulcer (talk) 01:20, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

Marathon Swimmers

The "dangerous" aspects of being in 50-55 degree water are sort of hilarious to marathon swimmers, who routinely swim for hours at this temperature. The qualifying swim for the English Channel is 6 hours at 59 degrees (15 degrees C). The qualifier used to be 10 hours.

As for drinking tea... this would have the warming efficiency of peeing in a lake.

Keeping water circulating certainly does make for a colder experience. The fine hairs on your skin trap water and your body warms it up. Making the water circulate moves that water away from the skin and replaces it with colder water.

Interesting. Thanks for sharing this information. It will be interesting for sports doctors and trainers to weigh in on this discussion -- it might be two different states where one is merely sitting in an ice bath for twenty minutes, versus swimming in a body of water for six hours; perhaps the distinction might be: the "ice bath" comes after a period of physical exertion (usually) and is a sharp contrast for the body -- while the marathon swim is the main exertion for the body and which "warms up the body" through the exertion (nullifying the effect of the cold?). It would be good to get more information on this whole subject, particularly as more scientists and doctors explore it. Also, please remember to sign your posts.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 15:13, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

Drawbacks section

Do we really need "cold" as one of the drawbacks. Isn't that self-evident? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.161.45.47 (talk) 18:54, 14 July 2012 (UTC)

Hmmmmm. It's bitingly painfully cold. Have you ever tried being in an ice bath???--Tomwsulcer (talk) 20:17, 14 July 2012 (UTC)

Exactly, isn't that obvious from the name "ice bath" though? Is it really necessary to include? 71.161.45.47 (talk) 03:18, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

Hmmmm. Well you got me. I don't know. Make a call and do what you think is best.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 03:20, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

K, I deleted it. Being cold in and of itself is not a drawback, and the discomfort mentioned is mentioned in the first drawback. 71.161.45.47 (talk) 03:39, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

ok. :) This article makes me want a warm cup of coffee.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 12:51, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

Huffington Post as a source?

There's one citation that links to the Huffington Post on the benefits of an ice bath--as this is not an actual scientific journal, can we get rid of that? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.36.207.115 (talk) 02:34, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

 Done.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 08:58, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

ALS Ice Bucket Challenge

What's the point of including the picture of someone doing the ALS Ice bucket Challenge? It has nothing to do with ice baths other than both are cold.

96.227.231.106 (talk) 01:31, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

Well, it is an ice bath, technically, since it is ice water (ice + water), which immerses a person, albeit briefly -- a temporary ice bath in a sense -- and it has been a popular phenomenon during the summer of 2014 with many people, including perhaps most celebrities, doing it, although a case could be made that it is so short that it doesn't really count as an ice bath, so I guess I am kind of on the fence on this one.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 12:11, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

There is a separate section for that. Kortoso (talk) 19:51, 20 January 2017 (UTC)

Changes

(copied from my talk page:) Sorry just getting used to editing Wikipedia - didn't mean to change the text. I think generally the page needs to be rewritten to lift it to a new level - pretty difficult to edit it and arrive at something satisfactory. The overriding issue is the repeated use of general media as reference points rather than peer reviewed journals. CEdgar121 (talk) 15:09, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

I'm copying your revision to the lede paragraph below.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 15:48, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

Cold water immersion, commonly called an "ice bath", has been used for decades throughout the world as a principal recovery modality post-exercise by elite and non-elite athletes alike. While it is generally accepted that cold water immersion will aid recovery, there is some debate about the effect of ice baths on adaptation i.e. will it aid or hinder the body in adapting to the greater stresses experienced during training sessions. In particular, if the main objective of the recovery session is to increase strength there is research indicating that ice bath therapy may attenuate [reduce] the training effect. The counter argument is that the athlete will have recovered faster and therefore will be able to cope with increased workloads during the next training session with an even greater adaptation effect. More well structured research is required to finally answer this debate.

— version as per User:CEdgar121

My problems with the changes...

• Cold water immersion, commonly called an "ice bath", has been used for decades throughout the world as a principal recovery modality post-exercise by elite and non-elite athletes alike. -- I sincerely doubt that this statement is true. Principal recovery modality? You'll need to provide references to support that and your other assertions.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 15:48, 15 March 2016 (UTC)
• While it is generally accepted that cold water immersion will aid recovery, -- simply not true that it is "generally accepted"; rather, there is much debate about whether there is any benefit at all.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 15:48, 15 March 2016 (UTC)
• My other problem is with language -- Wikipedia is for a general audience; this language seems like it might belong on a medicine/sports blog, in addition to grammar problems (eg "more well structured research is required...").--Tomwsulcer (talk) 15:48, 15 March 2016 (UTC)
• Removing references to respected publications such as The Guardian, such as you did here, and not replacing them with anything better, is not moving this article in the right direction. If you can find better sources, by all means add them, but removing fairly good sources is de-proving the article.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 15:51, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

Health information

Please ensure any WP:Biomedical information in this article is sourced to WP:MEDRS. In this edit[1] the Guardian was used, which is not a good source for this purpose. Alexbrn (talk) 10:45, 6 October 2016 (UTC)

The statement that the only health benefit is delayed onset muscle soreness needs to be better sourced; my hunch is there are other benefits established by medicine.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 11:15, 6 October 2016 (UTC)

It's difficult to get much better than a Cochrane systematic review - but if there are other good sources we of course should use them. A quick search drew a blank for me ... Alexbrn (talk) 11:42, 6 October 2016 (UTC)

Cochrane review is 4 years old.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 11:48, 6 October 2016 (UTC)

That's fine. They get updated if necessary (as MEDRS says). However, for frostbite the source says "Curiously, no reports of freezing or non-freezing cold injury have been reported; however, individuals with a history of these afflictions such as frostbite, chilblains, etc. should be cautious when considering the use of cryotherapy" (my bold). How does this source support our article text? (Add) I've raised a query about this article at WT:MED. Alexbrn (talk) 11:53, 6 October 2016 (UTC); added to 12:28, 6 October 2016 (UTC)

Try immersing yourself in an ice bath for longer than 20 minutes. Surprise: you'll get frostbite on your toes. It's common sense. Trainers say wear booties -- why -- prevents frostbite. Listen to Solomon. Or Listen to Justin Gatlin or Mariana Gosnell. Oh, that's right, if it's not MEDRS it doesn't belong in the encyclopedia.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 13:17, 6 October 2016 (UTC)

I have no idea: the MEDRS source we have says there were no reports of frostbite (maybe because water never falls below 0, unlike your socks - say - when hiking in the Arctic). Let's just follow the good sources. Alexbrn (talk) 13:19, 6 October 2016 (UTC)

Tell you what. I asked here. Maybe somebody who knows more about frostbite can add to the discussion.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 13:32, 6 October 2016 (UTC)

The answer is no. It's pretty simple physics. You can't make something freeze without temperatures below freezing (This is, basically, why we can't get down to Absolute zero.) For the record, us certified athletic trainers "say wear booties" because most of the thermoreceptors in your feet are in your toes. If you keep the toes dry the treatment is much less uncomfortable. ITasteLikePaint (talk) 08:52, 18 October 2016 (UTC)

Thanks.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 11:57, 18 October 2016 (UTC)

Hey! What about a salt water ice bath??? Ocean salt water is still liquid at 28.4 F (-2 C). Would prolonged immersion of hands or feet in sea water cause ice crystals to form in tissues? Or does the fact that blood also freezes at -2 to -3 C mean that frostbite will not occur? David notMD (talk) 16:55, 6 November 2017 (UTC)

You first. There will be an ambulance nearby if needed.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 18:16, 6 November 2017 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Ice bath. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110823020734/http://www.runnersworld.com/article/0%2C7120%2Cs6-241-285--12810-0%2C00.html to http://www.runnersworld.com/article/0%2C7120%2Cs6-241-285--12810-0%2C00.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 19:33, 8 April 2017 (UTC)

Strengthen citations

This page needs better, more recent citations and improvements in presentation. In the version that Alexbrn reverted, I added a number of peer-reviewed medical journal articles about the physiological and psychological effects of ice bath. These are not weak sources. They include books by reputable journalists (Scott Carney) and ice bath experts (Wim Hof) that have been published since the latest revision of this page. Why revert to outdated sources? SeagerTP (talk) 05:15, 23 July 2019 (UTC)

Sources for biomedical claims need to be WP:MEDRS, not popular lay books. Alexbrn (talk) 05:19, 23 July 2019 (UTC)

Makes sense. I'll clean up some of the newspaper citations that refer to medical info (rather than popularity), add peer-reviewed medical research from reputable journals for medical information, and ensure that popular books are used only to support claims about popularity (not medical risks or benefits). SeagerTP (talk) 21:22, 24 July 2019 (UTC)

Stop undoing changes that add peer-reviewed medical journal articles because you like outdated newspaper articles better Alexbrn. These are not "weak sources". They improve the article. SeagerTP (talk) 01:18, 26 July 2019 (UTC)

Peer-review is not sufficient; for biomedical claims sources must be WP:MEDRS. For general claims newspapers are fine. Thanks for finding the systematic review, that is a good source. Alexbrn (talk) 05:31, 26 July 2019 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: College Composition II

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 16 January 2024 and 11 May 2024. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Schwab444 (article contribs).

— Assignment last updated by Lindseybean28 (talk) 21:26, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

Cold Plunge

Came here after looking for 'Cold Plunge'. I know 1 you-tuber who does frequent Cold Plunges - In some cases having to break up the ice surface to get in. In this case NOT an athlete, done as a psychological / mood improvement technique, states started after depression from Spouses death. Interesting talk page- Wfoj3 (talk) 10:39, 2 June 2024 (UTC)