Talk:Ida Tarbell/Archive 1

Archive 1

Most important book

Who claimed her book was one of the most important of the 20th century? just curious.. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.193.21.220 (talk • contribs) }18:13, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

peanut butter

Is that peanut butter stuff true? 134.181.227.196 06:54, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

more peanut butter

I removed this from lead again: "She is also famous for her love of the taste of peanut butter, and was less consequentially arrested ten times on the charges of shop lifting it." I cannot verify if this is true, and whoever adds it uses unregistered IP addresses and doesn't cite the source. We get other edits which are more clearly vandalism with this article, so who knows? Vaoverland 08:38, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Later career

After that time she licked Wes Ramos, although she also contributed to Collier's Weekly, a large part of Tarbell's schedule began to include the lecture circuit. She became interested in the peace effort, serving on many committees. She continued to write and to teach biography. She published a 1926 interview with Benito Mussolini.

She also wrote several books on the role of women including The Business of Being a Woman (1912) and The Ways of Women (1915). Her last published work was her autobiography, All in the Day's Work (1939). Many of her books were to help women during their time of despair and hope.

"...licked Wes Ramos,..."

Where did she,.... what?

Who is Mr. Ramos?

"...time of despair and hope."

Is that supposed to be poetic?

It should have links to esso, exxon.

Thank You,

[[ hopiakuta Please do sign your signature on your message. ~~ Thank You. -]] 07:45, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

someone being retarded again

reverted 3 edits 75.31.247.11 (talk) 11:33, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

Number of women in her class

I removed two contradictory statements regarding the number of women in her college class. A citaction either way might help to clarify this.

"and was the only woman in her class...she graduated in 1880 as one of five female students"

--THobern 06:32, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

Come at me bro

Is is worth mentioning in the article that Ida's brother ran what was arguably Rockefeller's number one competitor, the Pure Oil Company? It doesn't have to be implied that that was her key motive for her anti-Rockefeller propaganda but it may be worth a mention nonetheless. --Simpsons contributor (talk) 22:52, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

The Source for that quote

Somebody has queried the sourcing of Tarbell's quote in which she disavows both the "muckraker" label and her leftist friends. The source is her own memoir. You can find it on google books: look here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Christofurio (talk • contribs) 20:19, 11 May 2014 (UTC)

Better version of quotation used

Until now the article contained a block quotation:

"Tarbell's biggest obstacle, however, was neither her gender nor Rockefeller's opposition. Rather, her biggest obstacle was the craft of journalism. She proposed to investigate Standard Oil and Rockefeller by using documents - hundreds of thousands of pages scattered throughout the nation - then fleshing out her findings through well-informed interviews with the company's current and former executives, competitors, government regulators, antitrust lawyers, and academic experts."

which was sourced only to the Columbia Journalism Review with no further details. I did not understand what the second sentence meant, but I thought maybe the passage was available through Google Books, so I could find further context.

I found the quotation in Google Books, but I found two versions of it. Neither one was in the CJR, which I presume is not available through Google Books.

One version was in the periodical The APF Reporter, and Google would only give me a snippet, which as far as I can tell agrees with the above wording.

The other version was in a book by Steve Weinberg that is already cited elsewhere in the article, and in this one, that sentence actually reads "Rather, her biggest obstacle was the craft of journalism as practiced at the turn of the twentieth century". Now it makes sense! There are several other wording differences, but I think the book version is clearly the better one and I've put that into the article instead. I also added a couple of sentences at the end, which I thought were the strongest part of the quotation: "In other words, she proposed to practice what today is considered investigative reporting, which did not exist in 1900. Indeed, she invented a new form of journalism."

I'm just posting this to explain the change. --65.94.51.64 (talk) 08:24, 31 August 2014 (UTC)

External links modified

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Shorenstein lecture

Here's an essay by two journalists who wrote for the New York Times, Wall Street Journal, New Yorker, etc., who describe how Ida Tarbell taught them and journalists generally how to do their job, of thorough research and explaining it clearly to readers afterwards. When they hit a wall with their reporting, they ask, "What Would Ida Do?"

https://shorensteincenter.org/abramson-mayer/
The Press Has Never Been More Vital to the Survival of Democracy
2018 Theodore H. White Lecture
by Jill Abramson and Jane Mayer
October 15, 2018
Shorenstein Center on Media, Politics and Public Policy at Harvard Kennedy School
--Nbauman (talk) 17:28, 16 October 2018 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Ida Tarbell/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Ed! (talk · contribs) 19:03, 12 January 2019 (UTC)

Will look at this one. —Ed!^(talk) 19:03, 12 January 2019 (UTC)

GA review (see here for criteria) (see here for this contributor's history of GA reviews)

1. It is reasonably well written:

   Dup links, dab links both show no problems. Copyvio tool returns green. There's one dead link, if it could be fixed.

 Done SusunW (talk) 16:17, 20 January 2019 (UTC)

1. It is factually accurate and verifiable:

   • Citation needed: "The real reason for the fall-out with Flood remains a mystery, but one reason may have been the placement of his son's name on the Masthead above Tarbell's own. Another hinted that her family had reason to seek revenge on him."

 Done SusunW (talk) 16:51, 20 January 2019 (UTC)

1. It is broad in its coverage:

   Not Yet

   • Early Life: "She told me the plain and ugly truth about myself that day, and as I sat there, looking her straight in the face, too proud to show any feeling, but shamed as I had before and never have been since." -- cite this quote to who said it.

 Done SusunW (talk) 17:05, 20 January 2019 (UTC)

1. • Second quote in tha graph, likewise. Is this something she later wrote or something from a later interview with her?

Citation  Done. The source says she recalled it later, but does not indicate the origin of the quote. SusunW (talk) 17:05, 20 January 2019 (UTC)

1. • Tarbell would go on to support the university by serving on the board of trustees, and the first women's dormitory was named after her. -- What years did she serve as trustee, and when was this dormitory completed?

 DoneNot really sure of the entire term. She was elected in 1912 and served over 30 years per sources which I have cited. Weinburg only says of the dormitory (pg 94), "When the first women's dormitory opened, it carried her name". No idea when it opened. SusunW (talk) 18:29, 20 January 2019 (UTC)

 DoneI went back through sources also and while I can find "served for thirty years" I cannot find evidence of which years. I went ahead and deleted the sentence about the dormitory being named for Tarbell. The only source I could find was the mention in Weinberg's book and there was nothing on Allegheny's site. It looks like the dormitory is called Ruter Hall, as in the accompanying photo. Auldhouse (talk) 22:26, 29 January 2019 (UTC)

1. • Early career, " "Doing this job I began to think..." same as above. Helpful to understand if these were written in memoirs, a diary, or for publication at the time.

Fixed the citation, but I have no idea what the source of the quote was as the reference section of Kochersberger is not available for me to view in the on-line book preview. SusunW (talk) 18:44, 20 January 2019 (UTC)

 DoneI'm going to eliminate the quote and sentence altogether after taking a look at both sources. Part of the quote was from her autobiography, All in a Day's Work, which was then quoted by Kochersberger. The original quote from Kochersberger was "Doing this job, she began to think about facts; reading proofs, she said, was "an exacting job which never ceased to worry me. What if the accent was in the wrong place? What if I brought somebody into the world in the wrong year?" The original quote from the autobiography was "But my task required better equipped libraries than Titusville offered; Meadville, only thirty miles away, headquarters for the Chautauquan, had them, and so I arranged to do my work there, remaining until I had read the proofs--an exacting job which never ceased to worry me. What if the accent was in the wrong place? What if I brought somebody into the world in the wrong year?"Auldhouse (talk) 22:48, 29 January 2019 (UTC)

1. • Spotting a lot of references to "the Chataquan" and, if all reference the periodical, should be italicized. Just making sure that's what you actually mean, though.

 Done From the sources it is clear it was the magazine and was italicized in the original references. SusunW (talk) 19:06, 20 January 2019 (UTC)

1. • Napoleon Bonaparte: "...quadrupling the readership to over 100,000..." is this referring to circulation or readership? The two measures are different in a journalism context.

Clarified. Doubled circulation, quadrupled readership. SusunW (talk) 19:29, 20 January 2019 (UTC)

1. • Abraham Lincoln: "The popular series by Tarbell once again helped boost McClure's circulation to over 250,000..." when was this measure taken?

Inserted dates with citation. SusunW (talk) 20:23, 20 January 2019 (UTC)

1. • Standard Oil: "...help of an assistant, John Siddall.(Serrin & Serrin 2002)" -- This footnote should be coded like the others unless there's a specific reason.

 Done SusunW (talk) 20:29, 20 January 2019 (UTC)

1. • The blockquote in this section should be cited to where it was written.

Not sure I understand. The citation is correct for the page of the source. However, it is not a quote by a person, but rather a direct reproduction of the text from the source. Seems to me, as it is not a quote, it should not be in a blockquote format? SusunW (talk) 20:43, 20 January 2019 (UTC)

1. • ". The play even though Ida had turned down the lead role and an offer of $2,500 a week to play the role for twenty weeks." -- I think something's missing here.

 Done SusunW (talk) 20:58, 20 January 2019 (UTC)

1. • Can the Family section be folded elsewhere? It's relatively short.

Seems like it was better placed in the American Magazine section which talked about her buying the farm. Moved it there. Will try to come back later and work on it a bit more. SusunW (talk) 21:23, 20 January 2019 (UTC)

1. It follows the neutral point of view policy:

   Not Yet

   • Lead: "This one masterpiece of investigative journalism" -- The term "masterpiece" shouldn't stand on its own. Who considers it a masterpiece?

Added cite to source and a reference on why he might be knowledgeable. SusunW (talk) 00:42, 21 January 2019 (UTC)

I need to do a little research on this. I'm not sure J. North Conway would be a large enough person of note here. I keep finding more references to her and I think with a little digging I can find some more recognizable historians or journalists to make this call. I found Doris Kearns Goodwin talking about her book the Bully Pulpit on a CSPAN video. I know the American Experience did a whole segment on her Standard Oil writing in a video on the Rockefellers. Let me put a pin in this one and rework the lead. Auldhouse (talk) 23:24, 29 January 2019 (UTC)

1. • Paris in the 1890s: "Roland was complicit in creating an atmosphere where violence lead to the Terror and her own execution." -- Was this Tarbell's view of her or was this history's view? Should be clear to avoid weasel phrasing. If it's just Tarbell's view, you could add "Tarbell thought..." and then in the next sentence, "Tarbell wrote at the time..."

Reworded to reflect that it was Tarbell's view. SusunW (talk) 16:56, 22 January 2019 (UTC)

1. • Standard Oil: "Organized by Tarbell into a cogent history, they became a damning portrayal of big business." -- "damning" is a loaded term, even with the benefit of history. Could this be cites to a historian or subsequent analysis of the significant impact her writing had on the perception of the company?

It turns out this was a direct quote from a source not previously cited. I have reworked the section as to my eyes it was too close to the original, though possibly just an error. SusunW (talk) 17:44, 22 January 2019 (UTC)

1. • "Organized by Tarbell into a cogent history, they became a damning portrayal of big business." -- likewise.

See comment immediately proceeding. SusunW (talk) 17:44, 22 January 2019 (UTC)

1. • Suffrage: "According to some scholars, this may have tarnished her long-term legacy." -- Should also note which scholars.

 Done SusunW (talk) 18:22, 22 January 2019 (UTC)

1. • Any contemporary thoughts on how her writing impacted the direction of journalism? Should note of course that her school of thought was a departure from yellow journalism of the era.

I have expanded the legacy section to discuss this. SusunW (talk) 21:22, 22 January 2019 (UTC)

I went through and expanded the legacy section a bit with pulled quotes from historians like Daniel Yergin, Doris Kearns Goodwin and Ellen Fitzpatrick. I then pulled a couple of these back up to the lead paragraph. Auldhouse (talk) 22:52, 2 February 2019 (UTC)

1. It is stable:

   Pass No problems there.

2. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate:

   Pass Eleven images all cited to PD where appropriate.

3. Other:

   On Hold An excellent article, just on hold for a few fixes. —Ed!^(talk) 19:53, 12 January 2019 (UTC)

   Update: I note the editor of the article appears to be on a wikibreak. Because I do think it's pretty close to being completed, I pinged her and will leave open for another seven days and also will ping relevant wikiprojects. After another week though, if no one gives it a look I'll have to remove from the queue. —Ed!^(talk) 22:20, 19 January 2019 (UTC)

Ed! I work with Women in Green and will try to help with this. Because I am not familiar with the article, I'll do my best to help with it, but may not be able to answer all of your questions. We'll see. SusunW (talk) 16:17, 20 January 2019 (UTC)

Ed!, I have tried to address all of your concerns. I also noticed that there were a large number of direct quotations throughout the article that were attributed to a wide range of pages, rather than the specific page from whence the quote derived and have attempted to correct that challenge. Please advise if there are further items needing to be addressed and how we should resolve the blockquote issue above by pinging me directly. Thanks for your review. SusunW (talk) 21:22, 22 January 2019 (UTC)

Sounds good! Thanks for your help SusunW. I believe Auldhouse said she's able to come back and finish the remaining comments here. —Ed!^(talk) 01:32, 24 January 2019 (UTC)

Great! Good luck in finishing it up. If I can help, let me know. SusunW (talk) 03:36, 24 January 2019 (UTC)

Thank you so much SusunW! Yes, I can go back through the rest.Auldhouse (talk) 22:09, 25 January 2019 (UTC)

Ed!Okay--I think I've hit it all. Have I missed anything? Are we good to go? I'm excited as this will be my first good article. Auldhouse (talk) 22:52, 2 February 2019 (UTC)

Wonderful work! All of these additions have really added some great content to the article. Based on this, going to Pass the GAN now. Superb work on all sides! Covering a complex subject in a very comprehensive way. —Ed!^(talk) 20:03, 3 February 2019 (UTC)

File:Ida M. Tarbell crop.jpg scheduled for POTD

Hello! This is to let editors know that the featured picture File:Ida M. Tarbell crop.jpg, which is used in this article, has been selected as the English Wikipedia's picture of the day (POTD) for November 5, 2020. A preview of the POTD is displayed below and can be edited at Template:POTD/2020-11-05. For the greater benefit of readers, any potential improvements or maintenance that could benefit the quality of this article should be done before its scheduled appearance on the Main Page. If you have any concerns, please place a message at Wikipedia talk:Picture of the day. Thank you! Cwmhiraeth (talk) 12:47, 19 October 2020 (UTC)

Ida Tarbell (November 5, 1857 – January 6, 1944) was an American writer, journalist, biographer and lecturer. One of the leading muckrakers of the Progressive Era of the late 19th and early 20th centuries, she pioneered investigative journalism. Her best-known exposé was of the Standard Oil Company, run at the time by oil tycoon John D. Rockefeller. This inspired other journalists to investigate and write about trusts, large businesses that (in the absence of strong antitrust laws in the 19th century) attempted to gain monopolies in various industries. She also wrote biographies of businessmen Elbert Henry Gary, chairman of U.S. Steel, and Owen D. Young, president of General Electric.

Photograph credit: James E. Purdy; restored by Adam Cuerden

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