Talk:Ima Hogg/additional material

Bernhard book

All of this is from the Bernhard book that is currently in the References section

p 2 after her death, 293 newspapers reported her death

late 1950s, she was quoted as saying "I had been collecting American furniture. I collected, and collected, and collected, until I had so much of it I didn't know what to do with it. I decided to give it to a museum."

p 3

• founded Houston Symphony Society in 1913
• 1929, founded Houston child guidance clinic
• As member of HISD school board, she started getting art programs in all-black schools and began Houston Symphony student concerts
• she said, "As the physical needs of the state are being fulfilled (I know you can't ask a starving child to paint a pretty picture), we need to think more about the things that make life worth living, the nourishing of the spirit"
• in 1972 she told the Houston Chronicle that she had gotten the most pleasure from her role in establishing the Houston child guidance clinic
  • clinic provides counseling and therapy for kids with emotional problems; also has an Ima Hogg Therapeutic School, offering 1-1 ratio of students/kids for kids who can't learn ina conventional classroom
• 1940 - est Hogg Foundation for Mental Health at UT
  • early project, send lecturers to rural areas and small towns to talk about mental health

p 4

• became fascinated with mental health while at UT studying psychology under Dr. A. Caswell Ellis

• I didn't add A. Caswell Ellis as I couldn't determine if s/he was notable? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 21:44, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

• served 12 terms as Houston Symphony Society President

• This is already in the article, attributed to page 58.

p 5

• at 92 she said, "Wehn you're as old as I am you can do anything you want to"

p 7

• "elegantly and stylishly dressed"
• fair complexion, blue eyes, 5'2"
• liked hats and pale colors
• Bayou Bend has 22 rooms, 14 acres of gardens
  • pale pink stucco mansion, vaguely Georgian Style on edge of River Oaks (now the most stylish neighborhood)
  • borders Buffalo Bayou
  • house built 1927
• she works closely with Staub to deisgn a house to show off the antiques she had collected

p 8

• at Bayou Bend many rare pieces, including a carved mahogany corner chair made in NY between 1760 and 1780 - poss the last of its kind
• she asked that admission to BB be free (but are asked to make reservations in advance
  • 55k visitors per year
• It is home to River Oaks Garden Club's annual Azalea Trail in March

p 9

• She was a rare collector of US antiques who did not live on the East Coast
  • refused to loan her pieces for exhibit in NY or New England because "they've got plenty of these things up there"
• Charles Montgomery, a Senior Research Fellow at Winterthur called BB "the largest, finest collection this side of Winterhur"

p 10

• bought 1st piece in the collection in 1920 - 18th century American chair
• she said "It is said that collecting is a disease. I think I had it from childhood."
• also collected Picassos and Chagalls in early 1900s
• in 1939 she fave 84 originals to MFAH, including 1 Sargent, 2 Millet etchings, color lithography by Cezanne, etchings by Matisee, Manet, and Mallol
• 1944 she gave her collection of US Indian art to MFAH - 168 pieces of pottery, 95 pieces of jewelry, 81 paintings, etc
• 1940s and 1950s focused on collecting US antiques, travelling1 -2 times a year to NY to look at dealers' showrooms

p 11

• had over 1000 books "on every aspect of antiques and decorative art"
• at her death, her butler-chauffur, Lucious Broadnas, had worked for her for over 40 years, and her personal made, Gertrude Vaughn, since the 1920s

p 12 she could "sugarcoat her single-mindnedness with layers of charm"

• Who do we attribute this to, Bernhard, or did someone else say it?

p 14

• David Warren, first curator at Bayou Bend, described her "She was small and dainty and feminine - and smart and sharpa nd knowledgeable - all rolled into one"
• in 1965 she moved out of BB and into a highrise apt at 3711 San Felipe road

p 15

• maid had been with her for 56 years (correction to above)
• at her death, UT declared 2 days of mourning and flew flag at half-mast
• buried at Austin's Oakwood cemetery next to her father and three brothers
  • Where's her mother ? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 15:55, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
    • This picture shows her mother with her father ?? [1] SandyGeorgia (Talk) 16:14, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
      • I'm assuming her mother was buried there, too, but the book didn't seem to have a high opinion of Sarah Hogg and didn't mention her grave specifically. Karanacs (talk) 16:18, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
        • OK, you'll have to fudge the text there; I'm afraid I'm not of much help in adding things. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 16:26, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

p 44 near the turn of the century Jim Hogg began speculating in oil lands

in March 1901 he bought 4100 acres on the site of the old Varner plantation near West Columbia

he and partner James Swayne of Fort Worth obtained mineral rights to 15 acres on Spindletop, where they soon had 5 oil wells

their company joined with a few others to form the Texas Company, which later became known as Texaco

in 1919, the oil field in West Columbia came in, and the family became independently wealthy from oil between its purchase and then, however, Jim Hogg worked to make the plantation "a model farm"

p 45 she attended UT for two years (1899-19010, then moved to NY to study piano

p48 on Jan 26, 1905, her father was injured in a train accident, for the next year he never recovered his strength, and Ima served as his nurse

p 49 he died of a heart attack in his sleep on march 3, 1906 Ima "was devestated" - she found her father dead

Houston Chronicle wrote about it

p 51 after Hogg's death, Ima collected his speeches and state papers and had 5 10-vol sets privately printed gave 1 to Rice University, one to Texas State Library, 1 to SMU and 2 to UT

Varner-Hogg Plantation dedicated as Texas's 56th state park on March 24, 1958, 107th anniversary of Jim Hogg's death

p 53 she spent 2 years in Europe (1907-1909), there she studied music with Franz Xaver Scharwenka, pianist to the court of Francis Joseph I of Austria, then trained under Martin Krause in Berlin

p 54 after world war 1 she was hospitalized for nearly a year and convalescent for three more

she decided not to be a concert pianist, although she never said why

came back to houston in 1909 and taught music for the next 9 years her first two pupils were Bessie Griffiths, who later taught piano in Houston for years, and Jacques Abram who became a concert pianist

p 55 at this time in Houston, no professional theater, opera, ballet, or symphony in Houston population was 100,000 y 1910

p 56 no museums, parks

she moved in with her brother Will, and in 1915 brother mike moved in with them

by 1913, she was president of the Girls' Musical society and was on the entertainment committee of the College Women's Club, which organized a small theater group known as the Green Mask Players

p 57 She organized the Houston Symphony Orchestra in 1913, their first season they had 3 concerts, conducted by Julien Paul Blitz

when the first board of directors convened, she agreed to be VP

p 58 1917 the board asked her to be president; she later served 12 terms as president

she travelled a great deal, to NY and the West Coast, and in June 1914 she went to Germany; while en route, Archduke Franxis Ferdinand was assassinated; the day before she arrived England declared war on Germany, but she didn't come home until October

p 59 Her brother Mike was a captain in WWI

Late in 1918 she fell ill, from comments made by those close to her, possible that she suffered from depression

p 60 she was under care of Dr. Franxis Xavier Dercum, noted neurologist and specialist in treatment of nervous and mental diseases, for 3 years

p 62 by summer of 1923 she was fully recovered, after being ill off and on for 4 years

during that time convalescing in Philadelphia, she began to think about collecting antiques, her brother Will encouraged her interest in collecting

p 63 the first piece she bought was a Queen Anne maple Spanish foot chair

resumed activities with the symphony in 1927

p 65 family tried to sell varner-hogg after jim hogg's death, but a provision in his will said they must keep it for 15 years

p 66 1919 oil struck on Varner land

in 1920, their avg monthly gross income was $225,000 (split 4 ways)

p 77 In the 1920s, Will and mike Hogg bought 1100 acres of undeveloped land 3 miles west of downtown Houston; Houston's elite had built houses in an area known as shadyside, noth of Rice University, but Will Hogg had a falling out with an oilman who already owned a house there. He decided to instead build a new ritzy neighorhood. This became River Oaks

the brothers and Hugh Potter designed the new subdivision

p 78 the Hoggs built their home on the largest lot, 14.5 acres; Ima worked with architect John Staub to design the house

p 79 new house had 22 rooms

p 80 the interiors were designed to show off some of the antiques that she had already purchased

they moved in in spring 1928

p 84

• Ima joined Will in Europe in 1930
• Will died Sept 12, 1930 after emergency surgery for a gallbladder attack
• he left a $2 million estate

p 85

• After Will's death, Ima lived alone with her servants
• brother Mike lived next door

p 87 She once told a friend she had gotten over 30 proposals of marriage but "'wouldn't have any of them'"

Not sure what to do with this, because ... what became of the uncited info that her fiance was killed in WWI ?? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 22:10, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

I moved the uncited stuff to the article talk page. Bernhard speculated that there might have been a fiance, but the only "proof" offered was a photo from that time period of Miss Ima with a young German man labelled "Fritz and me". Neely never even mentioned the depression. Karanacs (talk) 14:17, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

p 88

• on her trip aborad in 1929 she first decided to collect contemporary paintings and bought 2 Picassos, 1 Paul Klee (May-Oct 1929)
• later that year founded Houston child guidance clinic
• clinic was partly because of the youngest (Tom), who had reacted badly after their mother's death and as an adult was "restless, impulsive, and alarmingly careless with money"
• she worked closely with Dr. Robert Sutherland, the 1st director of the Hogg foundation, to design the programs for the Hogg foundation

p 89

• also in the early 1930s she began working with historian Robert C Cotner on a volume of her father's papers and speeches; Cotner later wrote a bio "ponderous, adulatory" of Jim. The bio depended heavily on Ima's memories and she was the source for the explanation of her name
• "Ima was the self-appointed guardian of James Stephen Hogg's place in history" - she often worte to deny or clarify articles about her father
• "the very fact that Ima had been burdened with a name that made a lifetime of explanations necessary also made her anxious to degend her father from all detractors. by doing so, she defended herself as well, and she did so with considerable skill and unfailing politeness"
• lifelong Democrat

p 90

• in 1940, at Mike's urging, she made a radio ad supporting Republican Wendell Wilkie
• Houston Press ran an editorial supporting her run for school board
• she won by over 1000 votes (she got 4350, runner up had 3026)
• with school board, she started a visiting teacher program for emotionally disturbed kids

p 92

• Houston symphony created a scholarship in her name
• she retired as pres of the Symphony Society in Oct 1956

p 94 in 1956 she helped found the HArris county heritage and conservation society - began the historic preservation project that created Sam Houston Park

Note: This does not match what is listed on the Sam Houston Park official website, so I don't think it should be included. Karanacs (talk) 01:58, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

p 95 served on an advisory board to maintain the Gov's Mansion and gave it a set of late 19th century antique parlor furniture by John Henrey Belter

p 98

• by the 1920s, the family weren't spending much time at Varner, but she still purchased art and antiques for it and placed family treasures there

p 99 *at Varner, each room had a different theme - (Texas) colonial times, Confederate, Napoleonic times (1818), mexican War

• "the house is a museum of Texana from the early days of the Austin land grants in the 1820s to Jim Hogg's governship in the 1890s"
• has copies of the original land grant and the deed that gave the property to its second owner, Columbus Patton
• has Jim's collection of walking sticks and his desk and chair

p 100

• when she was restoring any property she tried to find furniture made nearby, and if she couldn't she looked for pieces from the same area of history as the restoration
• varner-Hogg was her first attempt to create a museum

p 101 at the time she began collection early American pieces, very few other people were collecting them; most peopl ethought that antiques came from Europe

p 104 she began collecting in 1922 and researched heavily, even visiting Luke Vincent Lockwood, author of Colonial Furniture in America, the standard work on Early US antiques

p 107 Ima wouldn't buy something unless it was in good shape, regardless of its historical value

p 111 in 1948, she was made honorary curator for American art at the MFAH

p 113

• between 1958 and 1966 she rebuilt the small frame house where her parents had lived in Quitman in the 1870s and renamed it "Honeymoon cottage"
• In 1969, Quitman named an Ima Hogg Day and opened the Ima Hogg museum on the grounds of Jim Hogg State Park
• 1953 Gov Alllen shivers appointed Ima to Texa sState Historical Survey Committee

p 114

• 1967, Tx State Historical Survey Comm gave Ima an award for "'meritorious serice in historic preservation'"
• 1960 she was appointed by Eisenhower to committee to plan National Cultural Center (now Kennedy center)

• Already in the article, attributed to The New York Times

• 1962, jackie Kennedy asked Ima to be on an advisory committee to find historical furniture for the White House (Ima did agree)

• Already in the article, attributed to The New York Times

• had to go to court to get permission to make Bayou Bend a museum after some other residents of River Oaks sued - she won
• She gave $750,000 endowment for maint of BB
• the bridge to BB is a footbridge

p 116

• after BB became a museum, Ima would have dinner parties after hours; they ate off the china that was usually on display
• John Staub helped her to do structural changes to the house to ready it for a museum

p 117

• in BB, bathrooms and dressing rooms were removed and breakfast room converted to a hallway

p 118 BB has one of the 15 coies of Gilbert Stuart's painting of George Washington

p 121

• nothing at BB is roped off or labelled Do Not touch - makes it more like being a guest in someone's home
• Ima chose the first group of docents personally, and they began training 5 years before the museum opened
• 1959 she was given Amy Angell Colliers Montague Model for Civic Achievement from Garden Club of America

p 123

• Winedale about 80 miles west of Houston
• 1963 she bought the 8-room 113-yr-old inn, a barn, and slave quarters on 130 acres
• had been a stagecoach stop between Brenham and La Grange
• worked with architect Wayne Bell on the project

p 126

• after the inn, she bought an 1860s house near Round Top and moved it to Winedale

p 127 restored house and found elaborate frescos on the wall

p 129

• in 1966 she was given Louise du Pont Crowninshield Award for "'superlative achievement in the preservation, restoration and interpretation of sites, buildings, architecture, districts, and objects of national historical or cultural significance'" - highest award given by the Ntl Trust for Historic PReservation
• she became first female president of Philosophical Society of Texas (it had a 110 year history at that point)
• 1968 - 1st person to receive Santa Rita award from UT (highest award given by UT)

p 130

• 1969, became the 3rd woman to be selected member of Academy of Texas (Lady Bird Johnson and OVeta Culp Hobby were the others) the society was supposed to "'enrich, enlarge or enlighten'" knowledge in any field
• 1969, received award of merit from Americna Assoc of State and Local History for her restoration work
• 1965, named to International Honors List for Distinguished Decorating by National Society of Interior Designers
• 1972, NSID gave her its Thomas Jefferson Award for outstanding contributions toward the preservation of America's cultural heritage
• got an honorary doctorate from Southwestern University at age 89

Neely book

from Neely book (already listed in references). I've gone through this entire book.

p 13 in 1884, Jim's term as district attorney ended, and the family moved to Tyler, where Jim began practicing law

their house "became a gathering place for musicians", and Sarah played piano while Jim sang

Ima began playing piano at age 3 and often performed for their company

in 1886, Jim was elcted Texas attorney general and they moved to Austin, where Ima began kindergarten

p 16 Ima and her elder brother Will accompanied their mother to Jim's swearing-in ceremony and the inauguration ball in Jan 1891 - first inauguration in the new state capitol building

p 17 when they moved into the Governor's Mansion, it was falling down - built in 1855, it's "walls were cracked, the furniture was old and shabby, the drapes were ragged, and the carpets were worn out" Ima and her siblings were tasked with "scraping chewing gum from the furniture and door and window moldings"

p 18

p 19 after seeing a circus, the children staged their own circus outside the Governor's mansion. Ima charged each person a nickel, but her father made her give back all the money after he found out

p20 during the summers of her childhood, Ima and her siblings and her mother would visit the Stinson family plantation near Quitman

p 23 although Ima's younger brothers went to public school, she attended private school and also had a personal music teacher

p24 during her father's terms as governor's Ima often accompanied him to schools for the blind and deaf, charity hospitals, assylums for the mentally ill, and even jails "Jim Hogg had great compassion for these individuals, and he read research on mental problems in hopes that one day they could be cured. Ima sat and listened attentively as her father visited with patients, seeing firsthand his concern for the less fortunate."

p25 Jim Hogg's second term ended in Jan 1895 and the family moved to a boarding house, and he began practicing law again by this time Sarah Hogg;s "headaches had increased, her stomach was no better, and she could barely walk"

in summer of 1895, Jim Hogg took his wife to see Dr. Adolph Herff, a well-known San Antonio dr

p 26 when Ima and her mother moved to Colorado, the younger boys stayed with their Stinson grandparents, will was in college, and Jim Hogg stayed behind to make money because they had very little

Sarah Hogg's body lay in state at the governor's mansion, and she was buried in Oakwood cemetary

Why does Bernhard say Ima is buried at Oakwood with her father and brothers; is her mother just in a different plot? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 16:06, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

p 29 after the kids moved back home with their father in spring 1896 they added more animals, including a bear, a horse, a fawn, cockatoos, and two ostriches named Jack and Jill Ima's younger brothers challenged Ima to ride an ostrich; after she mounted it, they stung it with a slingshot and the ostrich threw her off

p 31 in 1899, at age 17, Ima entered UTAustin she later said "No freshman was ever more immature, more unprepared, more frightened than I"

she was a member of the Valentine Club, "a group of young women who inaugurated the first sorority on campus"

after two years at UT, her father sent her to study piano and music theory at the National Conservatory of Music in NYC (that was 1901)

p 32 after 2 years in NY, Ima returned home and moved into Varner plantation, but as her father moved his law practice to Houston, she spent a great deal of time in Houston with him

p 35 to help Ima deal with her grief over the loss of her father, Will took her to NY to enjoy concerts, theaters, museums and art galleries

in 1907 o p36 (in 1907) she took a vacation in Germany, and had so much fun in Berlin that she decided to stay and become a music student again

returned home in 1909 (aged 27)

p 59 Jan 15, 1918, "Tyndall-Hogg No. 2" oil well on the Varner plantation struck oil Ima and her brothers became multimillionaires

p 60 from that day until the 1990s, the West Columbia oil field produced about 100 million barrels of oil

in 1920, Ima and her brothers remodeled the plantation house at Varner -" enlarged the kitchen building, connected it to the main house, and covered the brick exterior with stucco. An added two-story portico supported by six columns faced the road to town, reorienting the front of the house away from Varner Creek" "also added four frame houses, a barn, a garage, and groves of pecan trees"

"The Hoggs believed that their oil money did not really belong to them, since it ame not through hard work but from the land." The four of them formed a corporation, Hogg Brothers, to manage the oil income

p 70 in 1927-1931, her brother mike served in the Texas House of Representatives

1929, Ima took a long visit to Europe, stopping in France, sweden, Denmark, and Russia

that year Ima also helped found the Houston Child Guidance Clinic - "miss Ima was convinced that early help for a child's emotional problems could often prevent more serious illness in the adult"

p 71 "Miss Ima's convictions about mental health were pioneering for that time, but they have been widely accepted in the years since"

in 1930 Ima joined her brother Will on a vacation in Germany at Baden-Baden. He had a gall bladder attack and died on Sep 12, 1930 after emergency surgery; Ima had to bring her brother's body home

p 72 after Will's death, Ima lived at Bayou Bend with her brother Mike and his wife Alice she spent a great deal of time travelling, collecting antiques and art, and working for the symphony society

1932 Ima gave a concert at Bayou Bend which was reviewed in the Houston Post

Will left 2.5 million dollars to "the people of Texas" in his will, and mike and Ima as exector and advisor had to decide how to spend it. Ima came up with the idea to create the Hogg Foundation for Mental Health, which was created in 1940 as an agency of UT

p 74 her brother Mike died of cancer in October 1941 (aged 56) he left his money to his widow for her lifetime; after that it would revert to UT for the creation of a dept of municipal govt

p 75 Ima gave his collection of works by Frederic Remington (53 oil painting, 10 watercolors, and the bronze statue Bconco Buster" to the Houston Museum of Fine Arts in 1943 - this is part of the permanent exhibit and is now known as the Hogg Brothers Collection - "one of the most important groupings of Western paintings on display in an American museum"

• Added, but according to whom, Neely ? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 22:33, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

• Yes, that is per Neely and I was too lazy to paraphrase. Karanacs (talk) 02:58, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

her reason for running for school board - "I felt the board should have two women members" served one six-year term

at that time, only white schools had art classes; she fixed that "she set up a program for emotionally disturbed students to be visited by special teachers"

did not run for a second term

p 76 MArch 1949 her youngest brother Tom died (aged 61) 0 she was only one left, aged 66

p 81 she restored her parent's first home and had it moved to the Governor Hogg Shrine State Historic Site at Quitman in 1952

she also provided family belongings to decorate it, and gave the park the restored home of her Grandfather stinson

p 82 after Varner-Hogg was given to the state, Ima began renovating Bayou Bend into a museum her neighbors objected to the plan of making it a museum because of an increase in traffic, so she suggested that a bridge be built over Buffalo Bayou directly to the house

p 83 city agreed to build the bridge so that museum visitors would not have to drive around River Oaks

she culled much of her furniture and belongings - took out personal information or items that did not fit her concept; the only piece of furniture that she left in the house that was not American was her English dining room table -- too many memories to take it out

fall of 1965 she moved out

p 84 before she left, Ima told the docents of the museum, "When you love something enough it's easy to give it up in order to see it go on." she then had to buy new furniture to furnish her apartment

p 85 when she left, she said she was "divorced but not separated" from the house - she hosted the annual Azalea Trail, and used the dining room to give her own dinner parties occasionally

the Azalea Trail - began in 1935, and private homes and gardens are opened to the public every year; it had always stopped at Bayou Bend

opportunity to see beautiful flowers and to see the insides of rich people's nice houses

p 86 she bought the Sam Lewis farmhouse at Winedale, near Round top in 1963, hoping to move it Bayou Bend and restore it this was unworkable (source does not say why), but she decided to restore it anyway 130 acre property

like the Varner plantaiton, this was one of the land grants to an Austin colonist (William Townsend)

p 87 she moved to Winedale for a time so that she "could personally supervise the carpenters" she planned the veggie and flower gardens, orderd special square nails, and bought the furnishings and arranged them herself (at this point she was in her 80s)

p 88 Winedale was donated in 1967, and then she moved two houses to the property - Lauderdale House became a dormitory and educational center (since burned down), and MacGregor-Grimm House has furniture "chosen to reflect the lives of wealthy Anglo- and German-Texans in the 1860s"

San Antonio Express 1939

"Hogg Fund to Go for State Health Program, Head of College Says", San-Antonio Express, July 20, 1939 {{citation}}: Check date values in: |date= (help)

activities that would be conducted under the new Hogg foundations for mental health with funds from Will's will (hee hee)

• establish mental hygiene clinics across Texas
• mental health lectures throughout state and at UT
• mental hygiene courses in Texas teacher training
• mental health research at UT's medical school in Galveston
• survey of mental hygiene conditions in Texas
  •  Done, I summarized this in to one sentence. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 18:57, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Iscoe book

Iscoe, Louise Kosches (1976). Ima Hogg: First Lady of Texas. Austin, TX: Hogg Foundation for Mental Health.

• Favorite courses at The University of Texas: German, Old English, Psychology (page 7)

• Added. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 03:33, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

• One of the five founding members of the first sorority at The University of Texas. (Doesn't give the name) (page 7)
• "Shortly after moving to Houston" (no more specific date than that, unfortunately), she was awakened by a burglar in her ground floor apartment bedroom. She confronted the man, who was attempting to steal her jewelry, and convinced him to not only return the jewelry, but (quote from book) "wrote down a name and address, handed it to him and told him to go there that very day to get a job." (end quote) Her response when asked why she did what she did (Ima direct quote in book) "He didn't look like a bad man." (end quote) (page 17)

• Added; please check that I didn't plagiarize. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 16:31, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

• Slept in (Ima direct quote in book) "the old Sam Houston fourposter bed" (end quote) in the Governor's Mansion while her father was in office (page 19) (Not sure if it was once, or regularly)
• A strong supporter of the children's concerts started by Houston Symphony conductor Ernst Hoffman (page 25)
• Wrote personal letter to at least one state senator urging passage of the Texas Mental Health Code by the 55th Texas Legislature in 1957 (page 29) (It passed, per: http://www.hogg.utexas.edu/PDF/Analysis_Texas_Mental_Health_Code.pdf)

Note: User:Bellhalla tracked down this book & took these notes. Maralia (talk) 03:24, 22 March 2008 (UTC)