Talk:Imamate in Shia doctrine/Archive 1

Archive 1

Rename

Rename Imamah into Imamah (Shi'a twelver doctrine) so it corresponds to Imamah (Shi'a Ismaili doctrine), then rename Shi'a Imam into Imamah (Shi'a doctrine), change the redirect that Imamah is by then into a redirect to Imamah (disambig):

• Imamah -> Imamah (disambig) - (not existing now)
  • Imamah (Shi'a doctrine) - (presently Shi'a Imam)
  • Imamah (Shi'a twelver doctrine) - (presently Imamah)
  • Imamah (Shi'a Ismaili doctrine)

--Striver 19:30, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

I suggest there be only one page with the name 'Imamah'. The additional 'Shia doctrine' to Imamah in the title is more of a definition, and is unnecessary as there is no corresponding doctrine of Imamah in the Sunni tradition. Also, I suggest the articles Imamah (Shi'a twelver doctrine) and Imamah (Shi'a Ismaili doctrine) be merged into this page under their respective sub-sections. --Bluerain (talk) 09:58, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

I view that the (Shi'a doctrine) in Imamah (Shi'a doctrine) is needed to distinguis it from the generic Imam article. I view that having Imamah (Shi'a twelver doctrine) and Imamah (Shi'a Ismaili doctrine) being merged into this article would result in overshadowing the Ismaili and Zaidi views, making them a disfavor, since its the only view having significant content. If the other would have content, we would need to split the article anyway, since it would be to big. Its more likely for the other views to evolve if they have their own articles with expand tags on them. Peace.--Striver 13:10, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

List and Table

is a very good idea Fgol142.104.148.39 20:14, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Caliphate and Imamah not equivalent

An Imam is a Guide in all religious and worldly matters, and is believed to have been Divinely appointed. A Caliph, on the other hand, is appointed by the consensus of the community, and is mostly a temporal ruler, where the Quran is taken to be the only authority in all matters pertaining to religion. --Bluerain (talk) 09:28, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

Salaam Alaykum. In the Shia view, Imams are Caliphs and vice-versa. The Sunni Caliphs (Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman, Umayyads, Abbasids, etc.) aren't Caliphs. The Imams (as) are the true Caliphs. If you are an Imam, it is your right that you are the Caliph, also, but people usurped the Caliphate from the rightful Caliphs. Since this is an article about a Shia doctrine, then it should remain the same (Caliphate and Imamah seen as equivalent in the article). Armyrifle 22:58, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Imam appointed by god

Can someone cite a reference of the fact that Shia Imams are appointed by god. A hadith or book perhaps? Thank you. Pejuang bahasa 21:57, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Rename Article

I purpose that we change the article name from Imamah to Imamate because it is used in the english speaking audience just as Prophethood is used and not Nubuwwah. Also, I purpose that Shi'a not be used in place of Shi`i and that doctrine be capitalized as Doctrine. I would like it to be Imamate (Shi`i Doctrine). M.K.Muhammadi (talk) 19:23, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

It's a good point, I think Imamate (Shi'a doctrine) and Imamate (Shi'a Ismaili doctrine) would be good - but not capitalised doctrine. On the other hand, does anyone else have objections? ناهد/(Nåhed) _speak! 19:31, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Hey

We should all try and prevent people from vandalizing this article! 24.63.39.127 (talk) 08:45, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

Turkish

I think we should remove the turkish names it seems superflous. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.100.92.13 (talk) 12:05, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

Instead of Turkish it would be better to have the translations of the Titles. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.100.92.13 (talk) 12:21, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

Merging tag removed

Imamah (Shi'a doctrine) is an article and this is a list. We can use a summary of this list in that article, but it's not good suggestion to merge them.--Seyyed(t-c) 02:25, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

Non-neutral POV

I have no dog in this fight, but phrases like "the word means appointed successor of the prophet as supported by a huge number of Quranic verses and ahadeeth narrated from the prophet" call the neutrality of the article into question. Someone who knows more about this should probably look into rewriting it, or at least add "why can't those silly Sunnis see how obvious this is" as the cherry on top. 72.197.38.59 (talk) 01:39, 1 May 2012 (UTC)

Merge

I suggest the articles Imamah (Shi'a twelver doctrine) and Imamah (Shi'a Ismaili doctrine) be merged into here. There isn't much difference in the 'doctrine' of Imamah between the different communities, only in the line of succession. This article should explain the general concept of Imamah, while the actual list of Imams of the different communities come on their respective article pages, with only a link provided in this article. --Bluerain (talk) 11:39, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

And i again oppose it. If for nothing else, there are doctinal differences between the twelver and the others views.--Striver 15:59, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Yes, but are they so different that they can't all be listed in this article? Could you list them out here? --Bluerain (talk) 07:31, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

The twelver view is much about there being exactly twelve Imams and they being sinless. And this gives much spin offs into comparision with profets, and defending claims of elevating them to actual profets. The other views do noth share this same idea, as far as i know, but i do not know enough to write about them. Puting all view in the same article gives the unfounded impresion that everybody share the twelver view. And i simply do not know what parts they do share, so i cant even write a disclaimer. In this way, it will be more vivdly displayed that they are in fact different doctrinces and it makes it more probable that somebody will go and improve the sevener view. Bro, why are you so eager to merge them? --Striver 10:38, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Imamat in these two branches of Islam are different. Henry Corbin in "History of Islamic philosophy"[1] seprates these two. These two articles look similiar because both of them incomplete. --Sa.vakilian 16:56, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Ok, is this settled, can we remove the tags?--Striver 16:29, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Ill take that as a "yes". --Striver 01:58, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

I've read Striver's reasoning and I agree with him COMPLETELY because I have actually edited the Imamah (Nizari Ismaili doctrine) article and found it pretty laborious to do so. The differences between all the tariqas are so IMMENSELY different that I abandoned the idea of editing these articles one by one because I am helplessly ignorant about their in-depth doctrines and I have no stomach to do the research on them the way I did for the article on the Nizaris. Salim e-a ebrahim (talk) 04:41, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

Lead

@Mhhossein: Can you please restate this in English: Tusi notifies that Imam is the means of the grace of Allah. Also, per WP:SWT, write "God" instead of "Allah", except in direct quotations, and don't capitalize "his" when referring to a god.--Anders Feder (talk) 07:47, 17 May 2015 (UTC)

@Anders Feder: I'm not sure whether I'm making a correct translation, but the phrase means as such to me: "According to Tusi, Imam is a mean through which human receives God's grace (or blessing)". Mhhossein (talk) 13:23, 17 May 2015 (UTC)

There needs to be a grammatical article before "Imam", e.g. "the Imam".--Anders Feder (talk) 13:37, 17 May 2015 (UTC) I've used "the" in the text.[2]--Anders Feder (talk) 13:41, 17 May 2015 (UTC)

Remove incumbent

Shall we remove the incumbent Imam to prevent bias and subjectivity?--88.111.129.157 (talk) 19:35, 17 May 2015 (UTC)