Talk:Immanuvel Devendrar

Content that violates the terms and conditions are deleted

• Moved content below from article. Jim1138 (talk) 09:11, 17 November 2017 (UTC)

The following is not in English or is unsourced

Legacy 1954ம் ஆண்டு தீண்டாமை ஒழிக்க வலியுறுத்தி மாநாடு ஒன்றினையும் நடத்திய அவர் தனது சமுதாய மக்கள் மத்தியில் அன்றைய காலகட்டத்தில் மாபெரும் சக்தியாக வலம் வரத்தொடங்கினார். இம்மானுவேல் சேகரனின் வளர்ச்சியும், அம்மக்களிடம் ஏற்பட்ட எழுச்சியும் பிற சமூகத்தை லேசாக உசுப்பிப் பார்க்க தொடங்கியது. தனது 19 வது வயதில் அருப்புக்கோட்டையில் தலித்துக்களுக்கு மட்டும் உருவாக்கப்பட்ட இரட்டை டம்பளர் முறைக்கு எதிர்ப்பு தெரிவித்து அந்தமுறையை சமூகத்திலிருந்து அகற்றிட மாநாடு நடத்தி தனது சமூக மக்களிடம் மட்டுமின்றி பிற சமூக மக்களிடமும் விழிப்புணர்வை ஏற்படுத்தினார். சாதிய ஒடுக்குமுறைக்கு எதிராகப் போராடியவர் தியாகி இமானுவேல் சேகரன். தனது கல்லூரி வாழ்க்கையில் வெள்ளையனே வெளியேறு இயக்கத்தில் கலந்து கொண்டு சிறை சென்றவர். இந்திய சுதந்திரத்தை நம்பி தன் வாலிபப் பருவ கனவுகளுடன் இந்திய ராணுவத்தில் தன்னை இணைத்துக் கொண்டு தேசத்திற்கான தன் சேவையை வழங்கச் சென்றார். 1950-ல் ராணுவத்திலிருந்து விடுப்பில் வந்த இவருக்கு தனது கற்பனையும் நிகழ்கால வாழ்க்கைமுறையும் வேறு வேறாக இருப்பது தெரிகிறது. இவரின் சமூக மக்களின் மீதான இன்னொரு சாதியினரின் ஒடுக்குமுறைகளைக் கண்டு தனது ராணுவ வேலையைத் துறந்தார். "ஒடுக்கப்பட்டோர்களின் விடுதலை இயக்கம்" என்ற அமைப்பைத் தொடங்கினார். 1957ம் ஆண்டு நடைபெற்ற தேர்தலில் ஆதிக்க சக்திகளிடமிருந்து தனது சமூகம் வெற்றிபெற கடுமையாக உழைத்து தனது பலத்தை நிரூபித்தார். Quotes " Even if we do not have freedom, we should stand up with valour for our rights " ( நமக்கு சுதந்திரம் இல்லை என்றாலும், நம் உரிமைகளுக்காக போராடுவோம் ) " Annihilation of Caste " ( ஜாதி ஒழிப்பு) " Never Believed in Violences " ( வன்முறைகளில் நம்பிக்கை இல்லை )

Recent removals

People keep removing what appears to be reliably sourced information from this article, and also adding unsourced info. I am not seeing any explanation for these changes, let alone a valid explanation. Hence my reverts. - Sitush (talk) 09:16, 12 January 2018 (UTC)

Change of Name

FYI Sitush and the others who care for Wikipedia.

All in good faith, the edit done by Bilqischondol seems to be correct as Immanuel Sekaran was never addressed as Immanuvel Devendrar. In 2010, the Indian government had issued a stamp on his name "Immanuel Sekaranar", -ar being the transliteration of the suffix for respect in Tamil.

References have been included. I have also given the link to the Indian postage stamp catalog (https://www.indiapost.gov.in) where there is a list of Commemorative stamps issued from 1947-2011 which lists Immanuel Sekaran's stamp having been issued on 9th October, 2010.

Hemalataeditor (talk) 09:21, 11 September 2018 (UTC)

References

Hemalataeditor Thank you for insights. Actually, this is what I had meant. Bilqischondol (talk) 09:30, 11 September 2018 (UTC)

I have taken the liberty of slightly reformatting the above two posts. I know not which would be the WP:COMMONNAME for this guy but what I do know is that the article title should reflect it, as too should the infobox and the introduction. The change that I reverted earlier just made things more complex and was contrary to our policy. As I said in my edit summary for that revert, we need to bear in mind the provisions of COMMONNAME and also of WP:RM. If someone is known by several names then the article title etc should reflect the one that is policy compliant but the article itself should also mention other names that are frequently used.

What do our existing sources say? I certainly don't give any great weight to government opinion, and nor should anyone else - when it comes to matters relating to caste etc, as this is, the situation is highly politicised. Similarly, as a current discussion at WP:RSN seems to be noting, most Indian newspapers are not really reliable sources. - Sitush (talk) 14:50, 11 September 2018 (UTC)

Hello Sitush and Hemalataeditor thank you for sharing. I understand the WP:COMMONNAME provisions and want to confirm that in addition to governmental and newspaper sources, there are several published books and journal articles mentioning Immanuel Sekaran. These can be provided. Existing sources also point to the commonly used name being Immanuel Sekaran. My suggestion is to move the page to a place with the correct commonplace name and to mention also-known-as names within as required by WP:COMMONNAME . As far as the discussion on "reliability" of Indian newspapers - slashing off a whole genre of a nation's media seems injudicious - even partiularly racist - and is indicative of the epidemic of western and white hegemony over Wikipedia but I will see the discussion where it is happening. Bilqischondol (talk) 04:11, 12 September 2018 (UTC)

The article would need to be moved also, if consensus is that the preferred name should be changed within it. Regarding the discussion about news sources etc, I think you will find that most participants there are Indian and/or have major involvement in editing Indian topics here - unlikely to be racist or an example of western and white hegemony. If you do participate there then it might be best to consider the general contributions of the existing participants before launching into potentially inflammatory generalisations about a swathe of editors. - Sitush (talk) 05:21, 12 September 2018 (UTC)

Sitush you asked a good question. What do the existing sources say? All the existing sources mention his name as 'Immanuel Sekaran' everywhere. Because you mentioned caste, I should warn that whoever created this page has added Immanuel Sekaran's caste name Devendrar as his surname, which was discarded by many people in Tamil Nadu. Regarding the WP:COMMONNAME, you say you don't know, why not look at all the news articles from the so called mainstream newspapers (I remember you said 'The Hindu' is most relaible not very long ago). The existing page also has sources from The Hindu which say Immanuel Sekaran and not Immanuvel Devendrar (though there are very few instances where he is addressed as Immanuel Sekaran Devendrar). Everyone here is to improve the article and I see (from our previous conversations) that you do a lot of research on Indian articles to edit them, if not your edits would stand invalid. So, if you really want to improve this page, I would say a little more research from your side is needed. You say that you don't give great weight to government opinion, but Wikipedia is not asking for your opinion either, I am sure (unless Wikipedia gives more weight to your opinion than government issued documents). Also when government ID's are the only proof for anyone's citizen, how can you deny it? Your mention of WP:RSN doesn't hold any importance in this conversation as none of the sources provided by us are web based news and are from the mainstream (two from The Hindu, one from the Hindustan Times, a book from a prominant publishing house, and a government issued document). If we can stop arguing on what you think for a while and focus on the mainstream sources, we may efficiently improve the article. I suggest moving the article to "Immanuel Sekaran" and also make changes in the infobox and introduction accordingly. Adding Bilqischondol - Hemalataeditor (talk) 05:39, 12 September 2018 (UTC)

Hi, I am not arguing, merely questioning and insisting that people follow policy. I am also researching anything at the moment, nor do I have an opinion regarding the naming here. I have not been well for some time and am not contributing much at all. My point was merely one regarding policy and how any change plays out with the article title. The main name used in a biographical article should reflect the title of that article, and the recent change would have caused them to be different. If consensus favours the recent change then the article needs to be re-titled. Simple as that. Any opinion I offered re: government sources, newspapers etc merely reflects the current consensus about reliability and use of such sources - always prefer academic texts. - Sitush (talk) 05:47, 12 September 2018 (UTC)

Tamil wikipedia never uses Immanuvel Devendrar.(https://ta.wikipedia.org/s/823) He is commonly know as Immanuvel Sekaran, So change the article title to Immanuvel Sekaran. --BALA. R^Talk 09:37, 11 September 2020 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion:

• Immanuvel Sekaranar.jpg

You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 18:51, 13 September 2018 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:

• Immanuel Sekaran.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 01:47, 4 November 2018 (UTC)