Talk:In Nomine

Comments

I'm trying to add a PDF of the John Bull In Nomine to the article. I think I've uploaded it, because this link

[[1]]

works, but I'm not clear about how to add this to the article. Can somebody help me?--Musanim 23:25, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Added as a Media: link (instead of Image: ). -- Rob C. alias Alarob 05:31, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

21st-century In Nomines?

Someone wrote that "a number of 20th and 21st-century composers" have written In Nomines. This needs to be substantiated. I am an In Nomine junkie, with a couple dozen of them on my iPod, but I haven't heard of a composer working in the genre since Henry Purcell. Please elaborate -- bearing in mind that not every composition titled "In Nomine" will necessarily be an example of this type. It's more likely to be devotional music with a Latin text. -- Rob C. alias Alarob 05:24, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

The New Grove article "In Nomine" by Warwick Edwards names in particular Peter Maxwell Davies, "notably the two Taverner Fantasias, Seven In Nomine and the opera Taverner. The Blitheman In Nomines form the basis for Roger Smalley’s Gloria tibi Trinitas I and Missa brevis."—Jerome Kohl (talk) 20:37, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

That's great! Thanks. Now I'll have to find recordings, as well as consult Grove's for more specifics. How much of this belongs in the article, do you think? -- Rob C. alias Alarob 04:29, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Pretty much all of it belongs in the article, I would say (that is, name the composers and pieces, and cite New Grove as a reference). As to recordings, I wish you luck. Davies's Second Taverner Fantasia was recorded as a filler for the First Symphony, way back when, and I think the Seven In Nomine may have been recorded, but the opera Taverner and the Smalley pieces have never been recorded commercially, as far as I am aware.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 05:37, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Martha Bishop has written several, including a piece where the In Nomine passes through all the parts (I can only think of a Ferrabosco that has a similar wandering cantus). Patricia Connelly had an In nomine presented at the 2009 VdGSA conclave.Agarvin (talk) 02:10, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

Notation please anyone?

It would be extremely helpful and improve the article immeasurably if someone could add the theme (in notation) of the In Nomine. I have no idea how to do this, hence my appeal! The same goes for other "liturgical" pieces such as the Misereres etc. Nick Michael (talk) 15:49, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

Excellent suggestion. I have checked Wikimedia Commons and found no suitable musical notation example there although, to my astonishment, there are two audio samples (one by Bull, the other by Gibbons) that could be added to this article. It would be a simple matter to typeset an example and upload it. If no-one else beats me to it, I shall try to do this later today.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 16:52, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

Jerome, I see you never got around to this…! I’m not surprised: I looked for an example of the ‘’in nomine’’ plainsong notaion and couldn’t find one online - to my astonishment too.

But maybe you could clear up a question for me: is the cantus firmus of the English ‘’in nomines’’ the plainchant (in the alto part), or one of Taverner’s other three parts? This is not clear to me in the article. If the ‘’in nomines’’ are based on the plainchant, then where does Taverner come into it? Your expertise would be most appreciated, and maybe the article requires some explanation to this effect. Nick Michael (talk) 22:00, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

Guilty as charged, m'lud. There are at least three published transcriptions of the Sarum rite version of the plainsong "Gloria tibi trinitas" (in Warwick Edwards's New Grove entry cited here in the References, and in two articles from 1949 simuiltaneously discovering the source, one by Gustave Reese, the other by Robert Donington and Thurston Dart), but I have been holding out for a facsimile of a manuscript copy, in order to make my own transcription and avoid any whiff of copyright infringement. It is actually quite long as chant melodies go. To answer your question, "the theme" is found in the alto voice in Taverner's mass and, as the article states, the name comes from the text at the point in the Sanctus of the mass where the words are "Benedictus qui venit in nomine Domini". Sections from masses were often lifted out of their context for use as instrumental chamber music, and this was a particularly popular example. This is all that Taverner had to do with it, which is one reason it took 400 years for scholars to figure out the source. (Another being that the Sarum version of the chant is substantially different from the "standard", Gregorian version.) Many of the 16th-century examples of In nomines exhibit motivic similarities with Taverner's other voices, but in most cases this has to be just coincidental. I cannot recall now if there are examples that can be securely regarded as quotations from Taverner, apart from the plainsong voice. Thanks for pointing out this shortcoming in the article. I shall have to brush up on the details, and try to improve the clarity of the article on this point. And maybe while I am at it I will finally get around to making that music example.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 23:42, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

Many thanks for this explanation. Wish I could help with the article but am not enough of a musicologist... Nick Michael (talk) 09:33, 5 November 2014 (UTC)