Talk:Inauguration of Javier Milei

Non-leaders

Hello! Can non-leader guests be added? Example: Bolsonaro? CoryGlee (talk) 19:55, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

Yes definitely notable. Dl.thinker (talk) 19:57, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

Edit warring over comparison to Trump and Bolsonaro

The following text has been repeatedly removed from this article by @Diyac.arts: His victory was likened to that of Donald Trump in the United States and Jair Bolsonaro's in Brazil.

Diyac.arts has provided the following edit summary in the most recent revert: Cites partisan source of unresearched political analysis that is not representative of the historical and political significance of this event within -Argentina- nor its President-Elect. NPOV violation: Avoid stating opinions as facts. Avoid stating seriously contested assertions as facts. Avoid stating facts as opinions. Prefer nonjudgmental language. Does not; Indicate the relative prominence of opposing views.[1]

The sources cited are both considered reliable (see Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Perennial sources). Points about the "historical and political significance" or the quality of the analysis are unsourced and verge on opinion/original research. This is not stating opinion as fact; the fact is that his victory was compared to these other events. The language is not judgmental. Rather than deleting the sentence, it should be improved per WP:PRESERVE.

References

Wracking ^talk! 21:03, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

This article is not about Milei as a person/politician, but about the event of his inauguration. How is this comparison relevant to it? Cambalachero (talk) 22:12, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

The quote is not about Milei as a person or politician, but about his victory being compared to others'. The context of the election is relevant background to the inauguration. Wracking ^talk! 22:24, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

There is an article called 2023 Argentine general election, that is where details of the election and its context are actually relevant. Sourcing articles written by Journalist instead Academic and Peer Review documents, books, journals etc: serves as injecting unsourced and verges on opinion/original research. When Non-Peer reviewed information is cited and used in an article, it is an injection academically weak material into an article. You are also engaged in an edit war by repeatedly changing content back to how you think it should be although other editors disagree. Diyac.arts (talk) 23:54, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

If the injection is to made, of which adds details about the election, it must not proclaim the politically charged assumptions when that is highly academically and historically disputable. Diyac.arts (talk) 23:57, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

It must rather state both opposing views and its historical context. Javier Milei is a right-wing Libertarian, but is also a classical liberal Classical liberalism, of which is not inherently "far-right", of which the article seems to inject, even though it is not relevant to the topic of the inauguration. Diyac.arts (talk) 00:01, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

This article is not merely a list of attendees of the inauguration. It is common practice to include additional context in articles (WP:PCR).

I recommend you review WP:RS, and specifically WP:SOURCETYPES. Your personal opinion of "academically weak material" is not relevant. Moreover, the sources for this particular sentence are considered generally reliable.

The article does not "inject" anything not said by sources already: that Milei's victory was compared to Trump's and Bolsonaro's. Wracking ^talk! 00:04, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

So, someone in a reliable source had something to say about Milei? Welcome to the club. We have the article Public image of Javier Milei specifically to get all those viewpoints out of the way and focus on the actual content of the article (in this case, the event of his inauguration). Compare with Inauguration of Donald Trump, with 206 page watchers, that article does not add any "Trump is a controversial politician because reasons" line (even if we could find plenty of sources for it), and stays focused on the inauguration itself. Besides, the problem with this content is not the source, but the concept. An "X is similar to Y" statement basically means "If you have no idea about X, then think of it as another Y, that you probably know about". Which may be fine for a quick context, as in everyday talk, but should be avoided at all costs in any better-prepared text. Because such comparisons are always faulty: when we start checking just a bit more, we can always find things from X that are different to Y, and things from Y that do not apply to X. For example, Milei may have similar ideas to Trump in some things, but radically different ones in others. For example, Trump champions trade protectionism, and Milei champions completely free trade. As for "context", Alberto Fernandez leaves a government with inflation over 130%, national reserves completely depleted and in the red, 40% of the country living in poverty, an unending number of taxes over almost everything, prohibition of importing or acquiring dollars, rampant crime with whole cities taken over by narcos, etc. Is there any similarity to the context left in the US by Barack Obama? Cambalachero (talk) 14:53, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

I'm not dying on this hill and I appreciate you taking the time to explain your viewpoint. Wracking ^talk! 15:39, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

The user makes false claims that the two sources are partisan, which is clearly untrue. There are those who are trying to convey the idea that this inauguration of a routine person from the same political line is contrary to what all reputable news agencies acknowledge. The source does not disparage Milei. Dl.thinker (talk) 06:46, 8 December 2023 (UTC)

It is irrelevant if the sources are partisan or not, or if the comparison is meant to "disparage" Milei or not. Comparisons are pointless and misleading by their very nature, and there's no reason to include them. Cambalachero (talk) 16:55, 8 December 2023 (UTC)

''Remove'' Agree with @Cambalachero It is a claim with no relevance to the topic of the article". Marginataen (talk) 08:49, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

Article structure

I've taken a look at the Inauguration of Joe Biden article. I think we to a large extent can apply how that inauguration article is stuctured to how this one about Milei. My suggestion is to have the following headings if possible.

Context: A bit about the 2023 election, the campaign, Milei's statements and so one

Planning: If possible, a bit about who organized this event. This could maybe me merged with Organizers, Costs and Security if there are enough sources about these things.

Pre-inaugural events: what happened leading up to the oath (I e.g. know we will he riding on a horse)

Inaugural events: The inauguration itself and what happened immediately afterwards. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Marginataen (talk • contribs) 11:37, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

I think that is a good start. It is fine by me to remove the above-discussed wording from the lead and move it in the appropriate section in the body, as you did here. Obviously, I disagree that it is "a claim with no relevance to the topic of the article", unless that was only referring to it being in the lead. But I think the issue was that there was no real body, it was just table with guests, so it was put there. I think you have fixed that, so I hope now this issue is solved and we can move on to expand it with several of these suggestions you listed. Davide King (talk) 14:39, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

Inauguration incidents

Christina Fernandez de Kirchner gave the middle finger to people booing her during the inauguration and Javier Milei had a bottle thrown at him. Should these incidents be added? Gogetasj4 (talk) 22:46, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

Perhaps, if they have been widely covered. How would you suggest to word it, where, and with which reliable sources in support? Davide King (talk) 21:26, 12 December 2023 (UTC)