Talk:Independent Olympic Athletes at the 2016 Summer Olympics

European Athletics flag

Stepanova would compete under the European Athletics flag. [1] Indeed, she already competed in 2016 European Athletics Championships – Women's 800 metres as well. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.119.95.211 (talk) 02:08, 19 July 2016 (UTC)

Sources for this [2]? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.119.95.211 (talk) 02:10, 19 July 2016 (UTC)

No she wont. The European Championsjops are different to the Olympics. She may be competing as a EAA in other competition, but she is a IOA at the Olympics. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Basetornado (talk • contribs) 15:10, 21 July 2016 (UTC)

header hierarchy

I am trying to be consistent in article titles, but see two approaches at the moment:

-First approach

• the Independent Olympic Athletes at the 2016 Summer Olympics is for the Russians (as it was yesterday)
• the Refugee Olympic Athletes at the 2016 Summer Olympics is for the Refugees

-Second Approach

• the Independent Olympic Athletes at the 2016 Summer Olympics is for both (as it was today, already before my edit)
  • no specific article on the Russians (yet...)
  • a specific article on Refugee Olympic Athletes at the 2016 Summer Olympics

I have no strong preference but prefer to be consistent throughout the above mentioned articles as well as Independent Olympians at the Olympic Games L.tak (talk) 17:19, 20 July 2016 (UTC)

I have only included the Refugee Information to show the differences between the two teams, they are both Neutral, but they are separate teams.Basetornado (talk) 15:14, 21 July 2016 (UTC)

I take it you want THIS article thus to be just about the russians? No problem. Let's implement like that. In the general [Independent Olympians at the Olympic Games]] both should however be noted. This is about neutral teams in general which have (as stated there) been very differently named over time. L.tak (talk) 16:37, 21 July 2016 (UTC)

This page is literally about the team "Independent Olympic Athletes" not the wider Independent Athletes.Basetornado (talk) 16:39, 21 July 2016 (UTC)

I am not sure what you are saying, but the page is moving in the right direction now....L.tak (talk) 16:51, 21 July 2016 (UTC)

Refugee and Independent

I have deliberately not linked the Independent and Refugee Athlete teams, because they are two seperate teams, competing under different IOC codes. I have left a small section explaining this and I have reverted the confusing intro, that had replaced my initial intro, because it had given the impression that both the Refugee and Independent teams were competing together, when they are not.Basetornado (talk) 15:22, 21 July 2016 (UTC)

what do we do?

Ok, we seem to be working against eachother a bit and I don't understand what you mean. If THIS article is about the Russians only, then the refugees, should only be mentioned as a sideline (I thought that is what you wanted), but if this article is about both teams, then here also all athletes should be present... I assume you meant the first one, and just want the situation clear. I will implement an alternative solution in a minute... L.tak (talk) 16:55, 21 July 2016 (UTC)

Just stop editing. I have got it back to how it should be. Stop editing. They are two seperate teams. I have left a small paragraph explaining that. I have made it clear they are seperate teams. The only reason it is in there is to give people reading information to show that they are two seperate teams. There is no confusion. Basetornado (talk) 17:04, 21 July 2016 (UTC)

Sorry, let' do this together. Hope this is a way to do this (and btw; please do not suggest anyone to stop editing, we have to find consensus together) L.tak (talk) 17:07, 21 July 2016 (UTC)

The reason im telling you to stop editing, is because you are editing things out and adding things in that, look sloppy and are poorly written or confusing. I have changed it back. So leave it at that. Basetornado (talk) 17:08, 21 July 2016 (UTC)

That is also a style issue. Please do not blanket revert (you did now numourous times), but look at the content. L.tak (talk) 17:12, 21 July 2016 (UTC)

I am looking at the content. You are writing things like "Other Team". I have blanket reverted because you keep deleting things or writing sloppy sentences that make things more confusing. Basetornado (talk) 17:15, 21 July 2016 (UTC)

What I tried to make clear it that this article is not about them, and that if you make 1 heading about Russia (about whose participants it IS) and 1 about the refugees (about whom it isn't) that is confusing. I tried about 3 different solutions, taht you reverted, so then I tried this... I have left it (for now) however. Anyway, we're getting somewhere now. L.tak (talk) 17:21, 21 July 2016 (UTC)

No you just made it more confusing. I put information in about how they are different, that was all that was needed. Leave it be. It's easy to read and understand that they are two seperate teams. Basetornado (talk) 17:23, 21 July 2016 (UTC)

participants

We have no two participants in the list, but only one confirmed. Does anyone know what the situation is? I have put a "citation needed" in for now, so that if it is confirmed, we can add a cite and be done with it... L.tak (talk) 17:12, 21 July 2016 (UTC)

Because the IOC is deciding on both their cases. They are both qualified by the IAAF. I have left plenty of cites on the case. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Basetornado (talk • contribs) 17:14, 21 July 2016 (UTC)

Clear, will add that. Thanks! L.tak (talk) 17:17, 21 July 2016 (UTC)

participation status

When cursory scanning through this article, one gets the feeling that those 2 athletes that are named in the "athletics"-section are actually nominated (or in an alternate way definitely selected) for participation. In this case it is a lot more tricky and that is (after all the edit discussions) now a lot clearer in the article. I do think however it should be noted also in the infobox and the (smalcap) note already present in the "athlethics" header. I was reverted but have added it again and seek input from others about this. What do you all think? L.tak (talk) 17:37, 21 July 2016 (UTC)

Im reverting you because, that information is there and the way your adding your information is in areas that look unprofessional or are for completely different things. Please stop editing.Basetornado (talk) 17:40, 21 July 2016 (UTC)

Do you have suggestions to implement what I was trying to implement? L.tak (talk) 17:44, 21 July 2016 (UTC)

I have already added a sentence on this matter. There is no need to implement what you wish to implement, that is why I am reverting them. Basetornado (talk) 17:47, 21 July 2016 (UTC)

Your position is clear. Waiting for the input of others! L.tak (talk) 17:54, 21 July 2016 (UTC)

Now made a note at wp olympics: Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Olympics#Independent_athletes:_input_from_the_wp_olympic_editing_community. L.tak (talk) 01:32, 22 July 2016 (UTC)

no independents this year? or only 1?

Well, things are moving at IOC and Russia. The press information (here) indicates there are no "neutral athletes" and this suggests to me that the only Athletics participant will be allowed/required to participate under the Russian flag (however, this is not made explicit); which would mean this article is.... void... Any ideas? L.tak (talk) 15:58, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

In the event that no-one ends up competing as an Independent Olympic Athlete, I'd suggest redirecting this page to Independent Olympians at the Olympic Games and having a short entry on that page describing how some athletes were scheduled to be Independents, but that this decision was overturned/overruled. In the event that Kilishina, or anyone else, does compete as an independent, then clearly we continue! --Super Nintendo Chalmers (talk) 08:14, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

Indeed. However, I think we should make the present doubt also clear in the lede (we have made too strong statements on this page in the past week; and that backfired...). L.tak (talk) 08:35, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

Agreed - I also think we should hold off in covering the page with 'unconfirmed'/'unknown': people can read! Besides, if we follow that, the participation of all athletes is at this stage dependent on injuries, withdrawls, etc etc etc.... --Super Nintendo Chalmers (talk) 08:43, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

Well, on the other hand, the participants in other states have been formally entered into the competition by their NOC. In this case, the IOC has a similar role, and the problem is that we have no confirmation at all on what the status is, and thus the "1 participant" is more crystal ball, then it is in other competitions. Shall I add a footnote besides the "1" to that effect (so the infobox/athlete section stays a bit more clean?). ... On the other hand, you have a point she was cleared by IOC... So let's leave it at this.... L.tak (talk) 08:53, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

Yeah, that is fair enough. We could footnote in the infobox, yes. --Super Nintendo Chalmers (talk) 10:49, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

Contested deletion

This page should not be speedily deleted because... Not sure this is the proper procedure, but the Kuwait article should be moved here since they are competing as IOA due to the suspension of the NOC. --Smartyllama (talk) 23:24, 5 August 2016 (UTC)

Nevermind, just read the full notice. Smartyllama (talk) 23:27, 5 August 2016 (UTC)

Contested deletion

This page should not be speedily deleted because... (Kuwait athletes became IOA as in https://www.rio2016.com/en/ioa) --177.212.206.112 (talk) 00:04, 6 August 2016 (UTC)

The notice has been updated to make this clearer as the intended change. --Super Goku V (talk) 01:51, 6 August 2016 (UTC)

Contested deletion

This page should not be speedily deleted because the team is not entered as "Kuwait". They are Kuwaiti athletes, but Kuwait lost the right to enter a team. --Kevin McE (talk) 00:10, 6 August 2016 (UTC)

That's correct. The Kuwait page will be moved here once this placeholder page is deleted. It's a procedural move more than anything else. I can give you the boring details if you want. Smartyllama (talk) 00:25, 6 August 2016 (UTC)

This talk page should be archived then -- 65.94.171.217 (talk) 02:10, 6 August 2016 (UTC)

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Discussion on Russian and Belarus nationalities as independent athletes

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