Talk:Indian National Congress/Archive 5

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Archive 5

Lead Section

Hello. I believe the lead consists of four paragraphs and effectively encapsulates the essence of the entire article. I'm interested in hearing other perspectives on whether it's well-crafted or if there's room for improvement. Thanks in advance. 25 CENTS VICTORIOUS ^🍁 19:48, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

Hi25 CENTS VICTORIOUS ^🍁 , I don't like the phrase "widespread roots". How about with deep roots in most regions / states of India? Otherwise thelede looks fine at the first glance. Thanks.Jonathansammy (talk) 20:08, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

Thanks @Jonathansammy. Should we include both regions / states or either of them will be fine? 25 CENTS VICTORIOUS ^🍁 12:44, 19 March 2024 (UTC)

Hi 25 CENTS VICTORIOUS ^🍁, Regions being a more generic word does not tie one to an exact geographically defined area such as a state.Regions therefore is a better choice because in India, states haven't been permanent entities. My two cents. Thanks and regards.Jonathansammy (talk) 16:58, 19 March 2024 (UTC)

Sure. In the History section, I have tried my best to include the most significant parts. However, if we include everything, the article will inevitably become lengthy. Could you recommend a list of points that the History section should have? Thanks 25 CENTS VICTORIOUS ^🍁 12:48, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

Social Democracy

Someone has added Social Democracy Template. Contemporary INC and their policies, especially Under Rao and Singh has nowhere mentioned of Social Democracy. As of now removing the template. Please do not add simply considering Nehru's era. 25 CENTS VICTORIOUS ^🍁 09:02, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

Hi 25 CENTS VICTORIOUS ^🍁,The Wikipedia page on Social democracy says, "By the 21st century, a social democratic policy regime is generally defined as an increase in welfare policies or an increase in public services and may be used synonymously with the Nordic model..All parties in India have some kind of Welfare policies; the BJP in my opinion is a kind of National Welfarist conservative party whereas I would call the Congress a classical Social democratic and liberal party. Please correct me if I am wrong but, unlike the UK conservative party, I don't think the Congress is in favor of selling off all government owned businesses such the postal service, railways, electricity distribution, water companies, bus services etc. And also when did Social democracy become a dirty word? My two cents. Thanks.Jonathansammy (talk) 17:10, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

Hi @Jonathansammy, thanks for responding pal. I was specifically referring to the Social Democracy template. I completely agree with your viewpoint that political parties in India have welfare policies. However, if we consider the aspect of welfare policies, each party's article might need to incorporate the template. My point is that presently, according to NCERT, the Indian National Congress is in no way associated with the Centre-left. Additionally, I attempted to find out if any member of the Congress party advocates or idealizes the Centre-left concept for the party. Another aspect is that if we consider the pre-1990s era, the Congress was inclined towards socialist policies. Nevertheless, after the economic reforms of the 1990s, the INC moved away from socialist policies. Thank you. 25 CENTS VICTORIOUS ^🍁 11:55, 2 November 2023 (UTC)

Hi 25 CENTS VICTORIOUS ^🍁, Per the Infobox, the party belongs to Socialist International.How do you reconcile that with the party not being Social democratic? I guess labels perhaps don't matter these days considering how capitalist the Chinese Communist party is.Thanks.Jonathansammy (talk) 17:01, 2 November 2023 (UTC)

Hello @Jonathansammy, exactly mate, Infobox also mentions Progressive Alliance(schism of Socialist International). If you go through edit history of the article, it seems 'Social Democracy' template added in the 'Political position' section and then included the same in the Infobox, along with 'Centre-left,' justifying one with the other. The Social Democracy article/template does not mention any other INC leaders since independence up to the present, except Nehru. Importantly, the source added to the Infobox only mentions the name of the INC, without specifying any leader or spokesperson. Furthermore, I couldn't find a source that could possibly justify whether contemporary INC leaders consider themselves center-left ideologists. 25 CENTS VICTORIOUS ^🍁 16:09, 3 November 2023 (UTC)

Hi 25 CENTS VICTORIOUS ^🍁, Apart from Secular, and Communal / Sectarian as its opposite, are there any other ideologies that can be used to define a political party at present in India? Obviously, regional parties would be in a different category.On a separate note, dynasticism is something that is common to all Indian political parties, perhaps with the exclusion of the Communists, and the Aam admi party.Cheers.Jonathansammy (talk) 16:53, 3 November 2023 (UTC)

Dear @Jonathansammy I once again agree with you mate. Unlike other major political parties worldwide that also focus on Environmentalism/Transhumanism etc, politics in India doesn't typically extend beyond religious issues. This could be due to the significant role that the concepts of secularism and communalism/sectarianism play in winning elections, often taking precedence over anything else (occasionally including caste issues). Regarding dynasticism, yes common to all Indian political parties. It seems to have been included as part of recent news, possibly added by some users, just like party funding in the leading section. I leave it to your discretion; should you wish to omit dynasticism, please feel free to do so. 25 CENTS VICTORIOUS ^🍁 14:23, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

Increase in welfare policies and increase in public services has been the go to for them especially in the last few years. MrMkG (talk) 02:12, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

Hi 25 CENTS VICTORIOUS ^🍁, Dynasticism is a feature of Indian democracy now right from village level to the top.So I would keep it.Thanks.Jonathansammy (talk) 16:06, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

Social democracy and center left should be added especially for nowadays. Even in Singh era, they had some center-left politics.

It should be center to center-left if you want to be inclusive of 90s and 2000s. Nowadays they even talk like leftists sometimes but that can wait. Half their plank is based on providing social support at this point though. MrMkG (talk) 02:08, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

+Economic Liberalism doesn't fit anymore either. It would have been true till the end of Singh maybe upto 2019-20. If you are using NCERT, it's not giving up to date information, it's historical. MrMkG (talk) 02:16, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

References

Social democracy or Economic liberalism

Indian National Congress is economically more liberal especially during Manmohan Singh and PV Rao's era. So, economic liberalism suits more than social democracy. In NCERT book it's written it supports economic reforms and is centrist. Social democracy is more leftist ideology rather than centrist. Gundaraaj (talk) 16:59, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

Third Way

Congress economic policies is assimilation of social democracy and economic reforms. So, it best describes it. ਰਾਜ ਪਾਲ (talk) 05:01, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

Infobox ideologies

For the last few days, the infobox of this article has been changed back and forth often enough. Per the article note, we should gain consensus on the edits before making a change in the ideology section.

ਰਾਜ ਪਾਲ, please consider reverting your addition of Third way and only add it once we have consensus.

Gundaraaj, in your revert, you removed Social democracy from the infobox. Can you show where the discussion and consensus for removing it is?

Thanks!

I will try to take a pass on the article, see if I can locate the previous consensus for all the points listed in ideology. Else it might be good to do a general poll for all the ideologies that should be listed Soni (talk) 07:25, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

I agree with that person with Punjabi name. But according to NCERT books INC is economically liberal. We must not consider Nehru or Indira's era Gundaraaj (talk) 07:28, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

See at top Talk:Indian National Congress#Social democracy or Economic liberalism Gundaraaj (talk) 07:29, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

That's not consensus. You started the discussion just a few days back, and nobody has replied yet. There's clearly many active editors here, that's why the section is getting changed so often. At the very least you should wait for a few more days to see other opinions before declaring WP:SILENT.

As for sources, NCERT books are not going to be considered very reliable sources. They are educational books, and we might be better off looking for books or papers written by historians or similar quality sources. Soni (talk) 07:47, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

Congress is left wing or atleast left-leaning now in its political position

Congress has been Left-wing for a while under the new leadership. Also @Gundaraaj stop removing Socialism from ideology. Witchilich (talk) 13:04, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

References

Semi-protected edit request on 6 June 2024

Total seats won by INC in 2024 election is 99 however 101 is showing there hence request you to replace with correct number, please refer the ECI url embeded below to validate the election result:

https://results.eci.gov.in/PcResultGenJune2024/index.htm Aspircse (talk) 14:17, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

It is old information, 2 independents joined INC which making its tally 101. [1] ZenDragoX _{(User) | (Contact)} 14:51, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

An independent cannot join a political party. They can extend support. But extension of support cannot be counted towards party seat total.

So the count of seats for Congress in 2024 Loksabha elections needs to be reduced on this page back from 101 to 99. The previous update is misinformed and hence erroneous. Mulaadhaar (talk) 18:26, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 12 June 2024

Telangana assembly,Congress currently has 69 seats with 1 CPI seat, it's current tally at 70 Yashwanth1512 (talk) 03:19, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Charliehdb (talk) 13:46, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

Congress ideology

Congress is a Big tent party with many factions. Big tent, Secularism and Civic nationalism are core ideology of Congress. It cannot fully consider it a liberal party. There are conservative figures like Vallabhbhai Patel. So, remove Liberalism (India). Different leaders follow different economic policies. Nehru followed a socialist or democratic socialist economic policies. Manmohan Singh and PV Narasima Rao followed Economic liberal economic policies. So, remove Social democracy. It's not a Centre-left party it's a Centrist or Big Tent partyVallabhbhai Patelngress. Imran Rashid Khan (talk) 17:48, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

See Democratic Party (United States) here no fixed ideology or political position is given. Imran Rashid Khan (talk) 17:49, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for bringing this to our attention. The party has undergone several changes since independence. Yes, we can add a section within the Ideological section detailing the significant changes the party has undergone so far with respect to Ideology. Please let us know if this sounds convincing. Thanks. 25 CENTS VICTORIOUS ^🍁 13:00, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

India's first political party

India's first political party is Akil Bharath hindu mahasabha since is 1882 2405:201:E00C:30AF:3033:5F8B:F3B:CDE0 (talk) 11:59, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

It was founded in 1915 by Malviya as a conservative pressure group within the Congress. Much later in the 1930s, it became a distinct political organization. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 15:41, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

See Hindu Mahasabha. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 15:42, 28 June 2024 (UTC)