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Talk:Inertial fusion power plant

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Latest comment: 18 years ago14 comments3 people in discussion

Hold on there! Would you like to explain to me why there should be an Inertial Fusion Energy article in addition to the exisiting Inertial confinement fusion article? --Art Carlson 07:19, 10 July 2006 (UTC)Reply

Hi Art,
I perfectly know that there is an existing article, but I had a few reasons doing it that way:
  1. Some topics are missing in Inertial confinement fusion, which is much more complete about theory and history, mainly for laser confinement, but not so much about other confinement techniques and power production projects;
  2. I wrote the original version on French WP, and it was much easier for me simply translating it than adding new paragraphs in an existing article.
  3. In my opinion, putting all the stuff in a single article will make it unreadable; I would prefer two separate articles, the first one about historical and theoretical topics, and the second related to engineering topics. In this perspective, both of them should need a serious cleaning process.
Croquant 10:32, 10 July 2006 (UTC)Reply

Your article looks good, and I would like to thank you for your work, but I would also like to define the boundaries of the two better. Let's look at the tables of contents:

Inertial Fusion Energy 

   * 1 Fusion vs fission
   * 2 Civilian fusion energy techniques
   * 3 History of fusion energy
   * 4 Fusion advantages
   * 5 IFE projects
         o 5.1 The competing projects
         o 5.2 Overall principles of an IFE reactor
         o 5.3 The Sandia Z-IFE project
   * 6 Notes and references
   * 7 Internal links
   * 8 External links
         o 8.1 History of fusion
         o 8.2 Generalities about IFE
         o 8.3 Inertial fusion experimentation sites
         o 8.4 IFE projects

The first 4 sections are not specific to ICF. Except for one-line summaries, the information should probably be in the general article on Fusion power instead. On the other end of the spectrum is section 5.3, which is very specific and should probably have its own article.

Inertial confinement fusion 

   * 1 Basic fusion
   * 2 ICF design
   * 3 Issues with the successful achievement of ICF
   * 4 Brief history
   * 5 Inertial Fusion Energy
   * 6 Inertially Confined Fusion and the Nuclear Weapons Program
   * 7 Pure Fusion Nuclear Weapons
   * 8 See also
   * 9 External links

Again, much of the content of the first section should probably be moved to Fusion power. Otherwise, both articles have a section on history, both have a section on inertial fusion as an energy source. The first article has two sections on competing projects and reactor issues. The second has two sections on hydrogen bombs. The history of civil and military research cannot be separated, and the principles (e.g. the reactions used, compression of a pellet to attain ρR, driving the compression with ablation) are common to both. If the content kept here is trimmed down to essentially history, physics, power plant engineering, weapons engineering, and current research programs, then one article is plenty. --Art Carlson 11:52, 10 July 2006 (UTC)Reply

Thanks Art for your analysis. I haven't thought about including Fusion power in the cleaning process; it's a good idea. Unfortunately, I lack time to look at the details for a couple of days; so it will give the ideas time to mature.
As a first step, I changed the title to a more specific "Inertial fusion power plant". Croquant 19:44, 11 July 2006 (UTC)Reply
I have to agree, virtually the entire article is a rehash of Fusion power. I am going to begin drastic changes.....here we go..!--Deglr6328 17:39, 16 July 2006 (UTC)Reply
done. salvaged uniqe material and moved to appropriare articles. now begining alteration of those sections into thier parent articles.--Deglr6328 07:09, 17 July 2006 (UTC)Reply

I can't accept your work which dismantled the article completly. Moreover, I can't find the parts you moved (as you said) to Inertial confinement fusion. So, I am sorry, but I revert to a previous acceptable version. Croquant 14:51, 17 July 2006 (UTC)Reply

I am very sorry you feel that way but the overwhelming majority of this article is simply redundant information directly pulled from other already existing articles and I have to say that it looks like I'm not alone in this assessment. I removed the novel and useful bits and placed them in thier appropriate places (the ICF page and the fusion power page). This page is now completely superfluous in my opinion. I see that you are from France, yes? You obviously are aware of the large ICF effort your country is currrently putting forth. I thought maybe since the english wiki doesn't have a Laser Megajoule page yet we could work on that together? I would be very happy to help you with it if you created such a page. Your edits are clearly well intentioned here and I welcome your additions to the ICF related articles so I really hope we can work together on this area in the future as there is certainly a lot more to be added on the subject! --Deglr6328 17:08, 17 July 2006 (UTC)Reply

I agree that there are some redundant parts in this article, but it is certainly NOT a reason to remove it ENTIRELY. Moreover, you DID NOT copy, as you wrongly said, the removed parts to Inertial confinement fusion. So, in my opinion, it's very close to vandalism. Croquant 17:26, 17 July 2006 (UTC)Reply

I'm sorry I gave that impression. You are right that I did not move it directly to the ICF page but rather I put it on the talk page where I am planning to edit it before adding it to the article. Ok so here is what I did to this article....
  • Section "Fusion vs Fission": Iremoved this section entirely due to it being HEAVILY covered alread on both the fusion, fission and fusion power pages
  • Section "Civilian fusion energy techniques": again I just removed as it is already covered nearly word for word on the MFE and tokamak pages and ICF page in various bits (though I think the IFE section here could be used as this article in its entirety)
  • Section "History of fusion energy": I think this section is fine and I like it so I moved it to what I feel is its much more appropriate home, the fusion power article.
  • Section "Fusion advantages" : this section is very thoroughly covered in several other places so i removed
  • Section "IFE projects": this is the bit i moved to the ICF talk for now
  • Section "The Sandia Z-IFE project": I moved this to what I feel is its much more appropriate home, the Z machine page.

--Deglr6328 17:45, 17 July 2006 (UTC)Reply

Although I believe you did it in good faith, I'm sorry to tell you that your action was in fact a deletion process, without using the right Wikipedia procedure, and so far completely incompatible with Wikipedia rules. So, what do you suggest to solve this problem ? Croquant 18:05, 17 July 2006 (UTC)Reply
I must insist that no wikipedia rules were violated. I gave notice on the talk page of my intention and noted where the parts of the article were moved to or removed in the edit comments. I was "being bold", as they say. Too bold? perhaps. anyway your edits are a good start. I will work on moving the "IFE projects" section into both the ICF and List of fusion experiments pages.--Deglr6328 18:25, 17 July 2006 (UTC)Reply
Moved the section "IFE projects" into the IFE section of the ICF article.--Deglr6328 09:12, 18 July 2006 (UTC)Reply
I had a look on your last changes; it's much better now, and I thank you for it. The whole set of articles about inertial fusion could probably be improved, but it's not so bad like that. Croquant 10:27, 18 July 2006 (UTC)Reply

removed off-topic general nuclear fusion information

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Latest comment: 17 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

The first 4 sections of this article, although pretty, consisted of very brief summaries of the history and basic physics of nuclear fusion and fission reactions, weapons and power plants. Important, to be sure, but not necessary on a page with this title. I removed them and did minor streamlining of the remaining information to improve the signal-to-noise ratio of the page.--BlackAndy 02:49, 12 January 2007 (UTC)Reply

No journal publications???

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Latest comment: 16 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

The bzz about the power plant (with the laser-driven fusion) holds since past century. Generations of researchers grown up with this idea. I see no journal publications in the list of references; and in the present form, subject of article looks a little bit fake. I believe, such a plant is doable, but why the readers have to believe? Can anybody provide the references to the serious (prefery available online) publications in respectable scientific journals? dima (talk) 23:47, 3 May 2008 (UTC)Reply

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