Talk:Infamous Second Son/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Czar (talk · contribs) 21:36, 9 July 2014 (UTC)

I should have this to you over the weekend czar ♔ 21:36, 9 July 2014 (UTC)

Good Article review progress box

Criteria: 1a. prose () 1b. MoS () 2a. ref layout () 2b. cites WP:RS () 2c. no WP:OR () 2d. no WP:CV () 3a. broadness () 3b. focus () 4. neutral () 5. stable () 6a. free or tagged images () 6b. pics relevant () Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed

Considerations

• Is the game an exclusive? Would be worth saying so, particularly in the lede since it's a definitive characteristic
• "After acquiring smoke powers from a rogue Conduit, protagonist Delsin Rowe travels to Seattle to fight against the D.U.P. and their leader Brooke Augustine." whole lotta specifics/jargon for the lede, perhaps simplify or rephrase?
• "conduit" and any other direct quotes need direct cites immediately following their sentences
• smoke and neon used to climb up buildings? need to be a bit more precise about what these meters are
• does the game use heroic v. villainous? because good/evil seems like a better or more useful dichotomy
• "Each time Delsin gains new powers he must destroy mobile D.U.P. command centers to learn the basic abilities": gains but does not learn?
• why isn't conduit capitalized every time?
• "whether to redeem the conduit vigilante Abigail "Fetch" Walker from her drug dealer slaying or corrupt her into a more prolific killer": (1) whether to redeem ... or TO corrupt (parallelism), (2) what does it mean to redeem? how can he have a power to corrupt someone? this may not be a good example to use if it requires much explanation
• might be simpler to use "the player" instead of "players" in this section, esp. since the game is single-player
• sentences like "Whatever choice players make in such scenarios will influence later missions." can be much more concise, e.g, "Player choices influence (outcomes in) later missions."
• is karma capitalized on purpose? Is it a proper noun in the game?
• "When a bar in the HUD fills up with either good or evil Karma,": do both types of karma count towards the bar?
• "The city is divided between districts that are controlled by the D.U.P.,": between the DUP and... who?
• lots of redundancy, room for concision and clarity in Gameplay
• "after the events in New Marais, and the death of hero Conduit": no comma? and "Conduit hero"?
• Second sentence of Synopsis should be inverted
• "the RFI wave": what is this
• what's a Conduit Gene?
• I think Conduits and their powers (what is power over concrete?) need to be clarified earlier on
• I'm going to skip the rest of Synopsis for now because it needs to be looked over for jargon instead of me doing point by point this way

• Infamous 3 doesn't need the quotes in addition to the italics
• no comma needed after Infamous series
• greater level of interactivity than what? normal? for the PS3? than with Microsoft?
• strike the em dash in ¶2
• dualshock missing camelcase
• touch pad → touchpad
• Fox quote missing immediate cite
• fieldwork is one word
• no hyphen in re-creation or comma following (most hyphenated words here can go without)
• I'm going to leave the minutiae for the copyedit from this point out and just review for the basic criteria

• Almost all of the quotes are inverted—not sure that was intentional. I know I had to look towards the end of the quote to find the speakers much of the time and then reread the quote. Alternatively, they can be woven into the text or just paraphrased
• spell out first use of NPC (jargon)
• "behind closed doors"
• "reviews onm Metacritic"
• quotes in Reception missing direct citations WP:MINREF
• images mostly okay, old revisions needed to be deleted and its rationale needs to be updated ("minimal use": "official box art"?)
• why wasn't the resize of File:Infamous Second Son game world.jpg fine? They usually need to be length times width < 100k
• What does the first image actually indicate about subduing? What is the smoke coming out of the body and where is the karma meter?

Suggestions

• Second sentence is a bit awkward, I'd recast it
• "heroic or villainous based on player-made choices that influence the morality system": "... villainous as player choices influence his morality."
• "when they began discussion with Sony to bring the Infamous series onto a new generation of hardware": awkward, I'd recast this sentence
• "widely-praised" remove hyphen same for all "-ly" hyphens in the article
• wfy side-quests
• "Players make choices like these, " awk
• parkour isn't something to be used—it's a style of moving, so players can climb parkour-style but not use parkour style to climb
• I'm an outsider to the series (and will likely stay one ho ho ho) but the gameplay needs to be much clearer if this is en route to FAC
• not sure the Fleming quote is useful
• concision: "(for example, when Delsin approaches and uses a fingerprint scanner, players emulate the action on the touch pad instead of pushing the triangle button)" → "(for example, players emulate the in-game fingerprint scanner using the DualShock touchpad)"
• concision: "The hardware allowed developers to improve" → "The hardware let developers improve"
• "Delsin's face lights up": I think that this shouldn't be a parenthetical, but part of the text
• "As Sucker Punch are primarily based in Seattle, they elected to set Second Son there as they felt confident that they could do Seattle justice" these types of phrases can be reorganized by grouping subjects together to repeat "they" less, e.g., "Sucker Punch elected to set Second Son in their hometown of Seattle. ..." and then I'd avoid the idiom of doing justice by either rephrasing or quoting what exactly the source said.
• ", requiring" → "and required"
• many of these website names should be italicized (WP:ITALICS: "Online magazines, newspapers, and news sites with original content should generally be italicized")
• Instead of the ¶ where that repeats how reviewers found the choices binary, you could group them into one sentence and say multiple reviewers. Also it would help to link other things to this, such as how Kollar thought the destructible environments had more lasting impact than the morality system.
• Could also use more reaction to the mocap, which was a big deal in the reviews I read
• NPCs already linked

No big issues for the GAN criteria, though I tried to separate the GAN quick fixes from the structural things necessary for further nominations. As usual, no need to reply in-line. Let me know when you're done czar ♔ 18:49, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for the review, Czar. Regarding the lack of immediate cites, I think it's better to avoid over-citing on two sentences if they're both supported from the same source. The lead already states that the game was released on PS4, so I think inserting "exclusively" would be redundant. I think that inverting quotes helps the prose flow more. Some of those smaller graphical effects were being lost in the image resize, and I think having a slight resolution increase (while still being small) is important for a game that's all about the graphics. The Karma meter and "Enemy Subdued" are in the upper left-hand corner, and the blue "smoke" is a graphical effect that shows the enemy being magically incapacitated without being killed. I think the other considerations have been addressed, I'll certainly take a look at your out-of-scope suggestions, but unfortunately I don't think an FAC is feasible until after the end-of-year awards sweeps, for completeness concerns. CR4ZE (t • c) 02:02, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

• "Karma also governs Delsin's powers—at higher levels of evil Karma, Delsin can acquire very destructive powers." isn't clear

Quotes are one of the few instances that always require immediate citations. I think I explained why the inverted quotes forces the reader to do more work, but that's for you to consider outside the GAN scope. Also consider changing "[...]" to "...". My suggestions weren't just for FAC, they're for clarity but outside the GAN minimum scope. czar ♔ 16:54, 20 July 2014 (UTC)

@Czar: all done. I did the immediate cites, even though I hold a different opinion on them. I have seen FA's bundle cites at the end of a chunk of text with quotes from a single source, but I'll defer if you feel strongly about it. CR4ZE (t • c) 11:50, 21 July 2014 (UTC)

2b of the GA criteria is "it provides in-line citations from reliable sources for direct quotations ..." (which links to WP:MINREF) so I'm not sure how else you want me to handle that. (And for the FACs, they shouldn't have passed 1c.) I spy a quote in Dev and several in Reception missing refs. czar ♔ 14:54, 21 July 2014 (UTC)

They're all done. CR4ZE (t • c) 15:23, 21 July 2014 (UTC)

✓ czar ♔ 15:34, 21 July 2014 (UTC)