Talk:Insecticide

1. Insecticides

It is chemically more correct to talk about organochlorine insecitides / compounds, for the chlorinated hydrocarbons we are dealing with are not chlorides. I propose to change this through the entire article. (RapidoII (talk) 10:05, 9 September 2008 (UTC))

There is significant disagreement over the actual environmental effects of DDT use in human habitation. Blind obeisance to agenda-driven screeds such as Rachel Carson's 'Silent Spring' which resulted in worldwide bans on its use is directly responsible for millions of deaths from malaria in underdeveloped countries.

This controversy should be explored in an unbiased manner.50.10.99.70 (talk) 05:43, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

There is no disagreement on the environmental effects of DDT and its breakdown products like DDE. These compounds are toxic, persistent and bioaccumulative and there is an enormous scientific paper corpus documenting modes of action and effects. 2001:BB6:1852:A700:7406:AAFB:777B:2220 (talk) 09:31, 11 July 2022 (UTC)

Classes of agricultural insecticides

Mode of action should be removed from the entry "The classification is done in several different ways", while the entire entry would benefit from a more logical organisation / formatting. How would we classify insecticides which are fermentation products like Dow AgroSciences' spinosad? Organic Insecticides? (RapidoII (talk) 10:09, 9 September 2008 (UTC)) I beg to differ - MoA is by far the most satisfactory way to classify all pesticides. Spinosad is in group 5. Roy Bateman (talk) 07:26, 13 December 2016 (UTC)

Focus on environmental effects

"Scare quotes" and strawmen do not an argument make. Sections like this make the entire encyclopedia look amateurish.

The article does not represent insecticides in an encyclopedic fashion. The article's main section is Environmental effects, with no mention of history, developement or worldwide usage. There are most definately well documented adverse effects of insecticides and these should be included. However, the article is not a forum to discuss only why restricting DTT use to vector control has reduced selection of resistant insects. The article should be a broad and NPOV review of insecticides in general. Goldfinger820 05:51, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

Agreed. It needs a re-write. Bihal 22:54, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

Totally agreed. This article also contains a great degree of negative, non-neutral phrases, e.g. opponents to environmentalism; this accusation, while sensational... More objective phrases should be used.

Doesn't really explain how insecticides work, except to say that they work on the nervous system.

kramsay 24 May 2006

I did not realize that DDT caused euphoria...where can I get some? The article is reasonably well done considering one of the biggest concerns regarding insecticides is environmental but there is insufficient information on the mechanistic function of insecticides to make the extensiveness of the environmental discussion reasonable.

4 Oct 2006

There is no solid scientific evidence that DDT causes the thinning of egg shells. This article reeks of POV. HvySlpr (talk) 23:47, 29 July 2008 (UTC)HvySlpr

This is simply not true. There are many experiments showing mode of action e.g. Lundholm, E. 1987, "Thinning of eggshells in birds by DDE: Mode of action on the eggshell gland", Comparative Biochemistry and Physiology, C, vol. 88C, no. 1, pp. 1-22. 2001:BB6:1852:A700:7406:AAFB:777B:2220 (talk) 09:29, 11 July 2022 (UTC)

Merge

Can someone who edits this article please merge articles like ovicide and larvicide either here or into Types of insecticide if need be? Richard001 04:03, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

Went ahead with ovicide, but larvicide is a pretty respectable stub, so I left it alone. Someone else can do it if they want though. Removing merge tag. delldot talk 20:32, 3 October 2007

Ovicide

Actually, this could also refer to the killing of eggs by animals, a form of infanticide. Perhaps a disambiguation would be better for this? Richard001 (talk) 21:23, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

A standardized definition of the term of insecticide is needed...

If it belong to the category of pesticides, then the products may have to be regulated--222.64.27.1 (talk) 23:26, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Perhaps there is a USDA or other legal definition, but there are other countries where such "regulations" can differ but the article certainly needs an overhaul with citations. Shyamal (talk) 09:26, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Section on "environmental impacts" but almost no material on impacts on human health

I will get on this soon, probably create a new section, I just wanted to bring it to people's attention that I think this is a serious omission on this article, as this has been extensively studied in the scientific literature, and there is already material on specific pages for various insecticides. Cazort (talk) 15:40, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

General POV issues

A lot of this article reads as prescriptive, normative statements--i.e. insecticides should be used in this way, they should not be used in this way, etc. and these comments are totally unsourced. I find this very problematic. I think we need to source such statements and state "Such-and-such group recommends to use insecticides in such a way." or "such-and-such group warns against X on the grounds of Y". I think if there is a clear scientific consensus of any of the statements, this needs to be backed up with multiple sources and identified as a consensus. The article now is just full of bold, unfounded assertions. Cazort (talk) 15:55, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Agree with the above. There is also a danger that issues are raised that belong on other pages - so for instance, I have moved application of household insecticides to the pesticide application page. Roy Bateman (talk) 10:01, 15 August 2009 (UTC) examples of insecticides substance are:baygon mighty killer,kwik and other chemichal substances.

Merging "Natural insecticides" with "Insecticides" articles

The "Natural insecticides" article contains conclusions derived directly from 2010 Research and development of a specific company (Provipax S.A.). As data put forward in the specific article have been recently discovered we feel that it should stand alone and NOT be merged with any other article, having a lot to offer to the reader after it's editing has finished. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dandreadis (talk • contribs) 23:25, 22 December 2010

The Natural insecticides article has been deleted so this discussion is now moot. Malcolmxl5 (talk) 17:00, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

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Alternatives

I am adding an alternatives section to this article to talk about Integrated Pest Management. Feel free to leave a comment here or on my talk page if you think anything I write is inappropriate for Wikipedia. Anuprecious (talk) 04:15, 12 December 2018 (UTC)

Agriculture

insecticides and pesticide 102.163.116.16 (talk) 15:17, 26 September 2023 (UTC)

IP editor: these Talk Pages are places to discuss improvements to articles, in this case insecticide. Do you have a suggested improvement? Mike Turnbull (talk) 15:37, 26 September 2023 (UTC)

Systemic Insecticides

Systemic insecticides are taken up by the plant and than migrate within the plant. They can thus kill insects eating (or sucking from) the plant at a place different to the place where the insecticide was applied. I just corrected the statement that systemicity means long-lasting or residual activity. There is a remnant of this misunderstanding in the "contact insecticide" section saying that contact insecticides are not long lasting. This statement should probably be deleted. Another problem is the statement that the Bt in Bt GMOs is systemic. The statement that it is incorporated thoughout the plant is correct, but I don't think that makes it a systemic insecticide. I am not complete certain that the term "systemic insecticide" is never used for Bt in Bt-GMOs, but it is not used in the citation given. If no-one has any objections I will modify the text correspondingly.Bosula (talk) 18:14, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

All your suggestions sound like improvements to me, so go ahead. Pyrethroids are, of course the classic example of long-lasting contact insecticides, so a reference for one of those (e.g. cyhalothrin) could be used when clarifying that part. Mike Turnbull (talk) 18:20, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

Hello Mike,

I deleted the bit about contact insecticides not showing residual activity, citing cyhalothrin. I wrote on the Bt talk page asking if anyone knew if Bt-toxin moved in plants or not. I assume not but hesitate to modify the text without knowing.

The section on Insecticide Development links to Pesticide Development, which badly needs improvement and which I will improve. Can I ask your opinion on the statement there starting with "Insecticide development is being discouraged and slowed down by public sentiment surrounding the worldwide colony collapse disorder crisis." This is not true, and I won't be able to find literature citing the continued research budgets. Can you think of any legitimate way of deleting this paragraph?

Also can I ask you another question. Have you met any disadvantages of using your name? I followed what I thought was the recommended procedure and used an old userid. However if there are no disadvantaged I will put my name in the user page.

regards, Tony Bosula (talk) 13:21, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

On the CCD mention, that looks like WP:OR to claim development was slowed due to CCD. One could make the case for general pollinator concerns rather than just CCD since the links to pesticides are more nebulous and complicated, but sources would still be needed over at that article.

As for names, I be careful and suggest not using them in this topic unless WP:DOXXING is not a concern for you. That's not about content though, so happy to discuss some of that on my user talk page. KoA (talk) 16:33, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

I will make another comment on the Pesticide page in the "discovery" section, about the lack of information on the criteria used by agencies funding academic research. I will keep using my code name in the meantime (thanks for the tip). Bosula (talk) 12:41, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

Synthetic Insecticides - number of classes

IRAC lists 56 chemical classes plus unknowns. Here we have a sub-section on 8 of these classes plus IGRs (3 classes). The criterion for including a particular class on this page is probably people adding their favourite classes. Therefore I suggest we replace them all with a section "history of synthetic insecticide discovery" starting with organochlorines and organophosphates and summarizing the large increase in introductions of new classes in the second half of the last century, and the slowing down of innovation this century. The organochlorines are of huge historic importance although no longer used, and the organophosphates are also historically important as well as being still in use. In order to link to all insecticide classes there would need to be a separate page, with a list, or such a list can be added to the "page:list of insecticides", which I would be happy to do. Bosula (talk) 13:43, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

The classes could certainly go on List of insecticides. We already have juvenile hormones and pyrethroid within the list article. Mike Turnbull (talk) 14:06, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

First we make a table elsewhere listing the modes of action and classes of insecticides. See Draft talk:List of modes of action of insecticides Bosula (talk) 11:58, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Insecticides used against spiders and other arthropods

Hello Dan, perhaps it would have been smarter to discuss the matter here right from the beginning rather than continuing to re-edit.

Sure, but it should be on the article Talk page, rather than my user Talk.

There are three issues.

One is the focus on insecticides the public use. You are probably thinking of the ones on a supermarket shelf, which can be used in households against ants, spiders, etc . These are broad spectrum insecticides, probably usually pyrethroids.

Virtually all insecticides currently sold to consumers in the U.S. are broad-spectrum pyrethroids. I suspect the situation is similar in other countries with different regulations (sounds like you're from a Commonwealth country?), due to the effectiveness, cheapness, and minimal toxicity of pyrethroids against mammals being so tough to beat.

Sorry, just realized I overstated the above. I meant to say "Virtually all spray insecticides...". The pyrethroids aren't king in the insecticide class of baits, since they're not just insecticides, but also insect repellents. --Dan Harkless (talk) 18:50, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

The public shop also in garden centres, where they can buy all sorts of insecticides in normal bottles, not in bulk. Therefore I suggest we write "broad-spectrum" rather than "especially those sold to the public".

I disagree. Joe Public isn't going to be able to distinguish between what's broad-spectrum and what isn't, but he can certainly distinguish between a vat of specialty agricultural insecticide vs. a can of RAID with ants and spiders pictured on it. Besides, it's not notable to just say that something that's broad-spectrum has wider killing power.

Second is the fact that domestic usage against spiders is a minor topic. You may feel it is of major importance, but read the whole insecticide page first, and you will see that it is not.

I just addressed this in my last edit comment: 'The point is _not_ to educate about spider control, but to educate that (at least from a general reader perspective) "insecticides" are really arthropodicides.'

Most insecticides do not have a broad enough spectrum to kill most insects, never mind other arthropods. It is incorrect to state that insecticides are per se arthropodicides.

Again, I'm saying most insecticides sold to the general public – the ones they come across and use in their daily reality – are really arthropodicides. Your point that we need to word this so it's not misapplied to the general class of insecticides, which includes the industrial ones, is important.

You will perhaps be able to find a review on the effects of insecticides on aquatic arthropods. There are certainly very many papers, and such studies are required by EPA etc for the approval of insecticides. Bosula (talk) 14:07, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

From what I've read, the current free-wheeling use of pyrethroids may change in the future, due to them being more toxic to marine arthropods, and to fish, than was previously recognized. --Dan Harkless (talk) 18:03, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

So given my insertion above regarding sprays, I just changed "Some insecticides (especially those sold to the public)" to "Some insecticides (including common bug sprays)" in the article. I think this wording is probably the way to go. Thank you for challenging me to get to it (though of course let me know if you disagree), and I'll work more on finding reliable sources on the environmental impacts of pyrethroid usage to marine and estuary arthropods and other organisms when I have time, so we can add some info. --Dan Harkless (talk) 18:50, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

OK. Lets leave it at that.

But on a side topic, domestic use of pyrethroids does not result in aquatic contamination. That is mainly run-off from agricultural use. Bosula (talk) 22:32, 10 November 2024 (UTC)